The dream keyboard

marfig

No ROM battery
I'm currently on the market looking for a good keyboard (again!). I don't know about you folks; but to me, keyboards are the most replaced computer element since rubber-dome keyboards became a norm. This has actually made me go red eyed on a few occasions, since the only efforts I witness into upping quality and production costs of keyboards is for the gaming segment. Whereas us, typists, are left in the cold with inferior pieces of garbage being touted nonetheless as great keyboards, but that just simply break after 6-9 months or slowly degrade their quality during that time to the point of becoming useless (keys don't respond so well anymore, noise levels increase, imprints fade away, etc...).

Anyways, I'm tired and want to fight back. I'm looking for a serious keyboard, something that can last me a couple of years with reasonable quality standards and durability to withstand someone who spends everyday typing. I'm a professional programmer and it's pretty much a done deal I stress my keyboards greatly over the course of an year.

SteelSeries 7G
For that effect I first looked at mechanical keyboards. The SteelSeries 7G soon caught my eye. It's everything I want in a keyboard. Good sized keys (including the function keys that for some inexplicable reason have been becoming smaller and smaller in recent keyboards), no nonsense make-me-a-coffee special keys and it is advertised (and apparently agreed by reviewers) as a keyboard durable enough to serve also as a swinging club. And if you spill coffee over it, just send it to the washing machine and hang it for drying. It lacks a Windows key, having replaced it with a type of FN key that gives access to just some elementary media functionality. But I'm sure I could map it back to a windows key.

I was able to finally found it on a store not far from here where I gave it a quick test. Types like a dream! A bit expensive but worth every cent. My hands just wanted it so bad!... But my ears refused the hands obscene proposal. It's loud! Not so loud, I hear, as the Das Keyboard utter nonsense, but still loud enough to not be something I can possibly use as a tool for work.

And that's my problem with mechanical keyboards. They are loud. Some even made to be loud just in the name of some obscure celebration of what is (no doubt) one of the best keyboards ever made but also one of the loudest. Those days of offices filled with a loud racket every day are thankfully gone. But some users -- many of which weren't even born when the IBM M was the subject of contemporary criticism by its users, not praise -- apparently think they should return.

The 7G actually has a more muffled sound. Not so offensive to the ears. But still a problem for anyone typing for long periods of time and who actually shares the room with other people who also want to work.

What then?
Nothing. I considered the possibility of looking into gaming rubber-dome keyboards (however few there are) since I would expect these to be more solid builds. But most are so shockingly tacky, I'd feel embarrassed to bring one of these things to the office.

I looked into the Logitech MX5500 bundle (with an excellent mouse, btw) hoping that a more expensive keyboard means a better keyboard, but the extra money is basically all going into the mouse and into an LCD screen on the keyboard I could do without.

What's the deal with making silent mechanical keyboards? I'm pretty sure this isn't impossible since most of the sound comes from flooring the key where a thin rubber layer could eliminate most of the clack clack. And what's the deal with simply no one making keyboards for typists that actually share the same principles of gaming keyboards in terms of durability and reliability?

Anyone, anywhere, knows of a great keyboard for a programmer? Or is the dream keyboard... exactly that?
 

Tharic-Nar

Senior Editor
Staff member
Moderator
Same boat as me in some respects... one thing that puts me off mechanical keys is the noise... and it's a big deal, for me at least. Anyway, there is one other alternative and... if you can't guess, ain't cheap... Enter, Topre Keys.

They ain't easy to find, but do a search for Topre Keyboards and only a handful will crop up, Realforce 105 key and 87 Key (with and without a numpad). Topre keys are capacitive dome keys - they act more like rubber domes keys but with springs, and last something like 30 million presses - and none of the noise associated with a mechanical. I've been eying them up myself, getting one to test is a challenge due to limited quantities.

An in-depth writeup is available here...

http://geekhack.org/showwiki.php?title=Topre+Realforce+Reference+-+all+things+topre#The+Topre+switch

Edit:
The 'Ask Ars' ergonomic keyboard article is worth a watch as it covers the major types and attributes, worth the watch (and how i found out about Topre keys).

http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/news/2011/02/ask-ars-ergonomic-keyboards-101.ars
 
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Psi*

Tech Monkey
I have been wondering how long people keep their desktop keyboards. And, what the criteria is for changing them out. I have a wired Microsoft keyboard that must be pushing 10 years ... at least 8.

I thought I would clean it recently & tapped it upside down on the desk. In a word, "disgusting"!:eek: So I decided to leave it alone.:rolleyes:
 

Tharic-Nar

Senior Editor
Staff member
Moderator
The problem comes down to the fact that you just don't notice much over time. When using the same KB for 3 years, it's hard to remember what it was like to begin with. The first signs are sticky keys, the keys either stay stuck down or the travel is hard, they become stiffer (the rubber domes hardening). Another sign is missing key registration, you press a key and it doesn't respond, so you push harder to make it register. When combined, your immediate thought is that you're just having a bad day, but in truth it can be the keyboard missing out characters when typing.

Yes, you could equally be having a bad day, but if it becomes a persistent problem, look into getting a new keyboard. This also entails a second problem, normally by the time you get round to replacing the old KB, new models are out and that means getting used to a new layout - this is one that catches a lot of people out. Keys in different places, the spacing is different, new tactile feedback, different key shapes (Shift, backspace, caps-lock and enter can vary dramatically), etc. So what some tend to do is buy multiple keyboards of the same type and then swap them out every couple years. It takes about 2 weeks to get used to a new KB, something to bare in mind.

I always find cleaning KBs a thankless task, hairs, dead insects, remains of a sandwich... spilt drinks.... worn keys and sticky fingers - often by children, lol.
 

Psi*

Tech Monkey
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This also entails a second problem, normally by the time you get round to replacing the old KB, new models are out and that means getting used to a new layout - this is one that catches a lot of people out. Keys in different places, the spacing is different, new tactile feedback, different key shapes (Shift, backspace, caps-lock and enter can vary dramatically), etc. So what some tend to do is buy multiple keyboards of the same type and then swap them out every couple years. It takes about 2 weeks to get used to a new KB, something to bare in mind.
You know, I think this my subconscious fear! The alien feel of a new k/b!

I always find cleaning KBs a thankless task, hairs, dead insects, remains of a sandwich... spilt drinks.... worn keys and sticky fingers - often by children, lol.
Don't tell me about having food & drinks around k/bs ... sore subject of late.:eek:

But holy crapola ... $300 for a Topre Keyboard!?! Well, checking out their web site, these are certainly rugged k/bs for heavy use. But I am uncertain about the uniqueness of the "capacitive key switches" & just Topre. I do believe that the capacitive switches are more durable & eliminate key bounce ... I am just wondering who else use the same tech.
 

Tharic-Nar

Senior Editor
Staff member
Moderator
Send Ars a beer too, lol. Mine will be warm by the time it gets here... save me some cake though!

It's just a shame those KBs are $200+... but hey, peripherals are so underrated. They don't have the same clear cut results in benchmarks or all the bling and FPS ranks... but without them, you'd have a very expensive, high powered paperweight for a desktop. It's your only way to interact with a computer, and done for many hours a day. If there was anything more important, it would be a decent chair... but that's another matter. ;)

Glad to help, and let me know what they're like if you get one.

But I am uncertain about the uniqueness of the "capacitive key switches" & just Topre. I do believe that the capacitive switches are more durable & eliminate key bounce ... I am just wondering who else use the same tech.

Yeah, they carry a hell of a premium for what equates to something so simple. Alternatives would be nice, but if one company can charge those kind of prices, why would another charge less? - especially since they are quite exclusive...

Without actually using one, I couldn't say if they are really worth it - but if they last longer, feel good and don't have the noise of a mechanical, then I'm not going to complain, lol.
 
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marfig

No ROM battery
But holy crapola ... $300 for a Topre Keyboard!?!

Yeah. That price isn't something I'd want to hear. Won't be an easy picking and there's some explaining I need to do to my wife before I go for it. But this is exactly what I've been waiting for many years; an improvement in the rubber-dome solution that can make keyboards more durable and with long-life.

The price however comes about right for someone like me, considering that in the life-span of a keyboard like this (around 3 to 4 years, I suspect), I'd be otherwise buying 5 keyboards; assuming an average of 8 month lifespan which is about right on my case.

With all the annoyance that entails, I'd be also loosing out on becoming so accustomed to a keyboard it becomes an extension of my hands, and no doubt increase both my typing skills and work productivity.

Concerning cleaning... that will no doubt become a problem. Especially because I'm towards the sloppy side of things when it comes to working while eating and drinking. No doubt I will have to once and while open it up and do a more thorough clean. But when you get a keyboard for $300, you definitely do it out of love. And that should not be a burden.

But I am uncertain about the uniqueness of the "capacitive key switches" & just Topre. I do believe that the capacitive switches are more durable & eliminate key bounce ... I am just wondering who else use the same tech.

Nobody, since they patented it and are apparently unwilling to sell rights or charging too much. I'd suspect there's also very little interest by companies like Logitech, Microsoft or Genius to produce these high quality rubber-dome keyboards since unfortunately the market is very biased towards gaming keyboards where it benefits from a smaller, but very loud crowd willing to put big money on mechanical keyboards for their gaming. Conversely, not many typists would share the same willingness to spend money (although I'm very critic of that approach since the keyboard is on this case a professional tool and should be exactly the subject of much higher standards).

...

I'm looking at The Keyboard Company (a British outfit) which has an exclusive make that already includes the numeric keypad for a whooping 160 pounds, excluding VAT. That's a total of 220 pounds, including VAT and shipping. That's 240 Euros, or 361 USD.

The interesting thing about this exclusive make is, if you look closely at the image (click it), the lettering is of a earth tone and is thus more visible than the black one of the original. So, it sort of compensates the fact they don't have any white offering with a numeric keypad. Besides I prefer black.
 
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Psi*

Tech Monkey
I am interested in a seeing a critical review ... then I will still wait ~6 months. :)
 

Kougar

Techgage Staff
Staff member
I think I'm in awe of your guys. :D Or maybe I don't use the computer nearly as much as I thought I did... my keyboards tend to last 2-3 years! I bought the same model Microsoft one twice as I was that happy with it, was a good quiet keyboard with just the right key sensitivity, even if the wireless range was measured in inches... which on the plus side was probably why it lasted easily six months on two AAs despite being an "always on" design.

I have been wondering how long people keep their desktop keyboards. And, what the criteria is for changing them out. I have a wired Microsoft keyboard that must be pushing 10 years ... at least 8.

I thought I would clean it recently & tapped it upside down on the desk. In a word, "disgusting"!:eek: So I decided to leave it alone.:rolleyes:

The last keyboard I used was a Microsoft something or other... was a wireless one, but for most models just take the faceplate off and you can chuck it in the top rack of your dishwasher. You'll get it back like-new and fully clean without needing to take off a single key. ;)

I'm using the MX5500 as I found a good deal on one, kept my G500 mouse though. The keys aren't quite as good as the Microsoft keyboard and are slightly louder, but on the flipside it has great wireless range and the Function lock key doesn't disable the function keys by default upon boot. At first I tried the cheaper $25 version of the MX5500, but some keys wouldn't even register during typing, most notably the shift key. It was a pretty piss poor keyboard... the MX5500 didn't have that issue at all despite looking almost identical, so the quality is indeed a little better on it. But not as good as it should be or I'd ideally want.

My sole problem with the Microsoft keyboard.... Imagine trying to hit F8 or F12 to get into a quick boot menu or the BIOS, before the monitor wakes up to display anything, and not knowing if the function keys were locked or not since there's no status indicator... it was the single stupidest design flaw I'd ever seen for a keyboard, and far as I know Microsoft still does it on wireless models. Since their keyboards still boot with the function keys locked out they put the LED indicator on the base station... :rolleyes:

Those Topre keyboards are interesting, but they look exactly like those old ~2000 era OEM keyboards. I have a compaq keyboard that I'd bet feels exactly like one of those, only reason I don't use it over the mx5500 was the lack of media keys and the wrong style delete/insert key arrangement. But for touch typing documents, I love that compaq keyboard.
 
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Optix

Basket Chassis
Staff member
My low-end Razer Arctosa is still working out well for me. The overall design and keys have a low profile, which I like although I was hoping the tactile feel would be more like a laptop.

Aside from a small glitch every 6 months or so where it pulls to the right as if a key is stuck, it's been pretty solid. I'm always on the lookout for a new one though with no real criteria other than does it do what I need it to?
 

marfig

No ROM battery
Around June, a month after my last post on this thread, I decided this month (August) would be when I would buy that Topre keyboard. With some extra money that always comes around this time of year, this would suit me well. Possibly a week later I would do the promised review of this keyboard.

Unfortunately July was a very bad month for us and it has significantly changed our plans and... I'm afraid... our lifestyle. Unemployment (the hard type of unemployment) stroke our house for the first time in 2 decades and I'm afraid there's no room for luxuries.

So I don't think anyone will hear from me on this keyboard anymore. Maybe another time. Since I spoke of buying it and doing a review, this is me just letting you folks know it won't happen.
 

eunoia

Partition Master
Best wishes marfig! Please allow me to hope to read this review eventually, your mad skillz and the infectious passion mechanical keyboards always seem to inspire in typists guarantee a good read.
 

Psi*

Tech Monkey
@ GFreeman. I like that kybd. How does it feel in comparison to anything else you have used.

Hang in there marfig
 

GFreeman

Coastermaker
I quite like it. I've bought a ASRock 3d Vision little machine a while ago. It's nice having a wireless keyboard and mouse. I can sit on the couch while writing. I like that feature. There are also no changing batteries involved thanks to the little solar panels. It would have been better if the wireless mouse was charged by it as well. To have one desktop solution. It types quite comfortable too I have to say. Ergonomically it might not be the most comfortable solution I think.. While typing my elbows are fully supported and my fingers have a good angle.
 

GFreeman

Coastermaker
SWWEEET! It's happy LMAO!

solarq.png


Sorry the language is in Dutch :p It's says. Outstanding! The energy levels are fully loaded.
 

marfig

No ROM battery
Hehe, it's not that bad guys. Just a not into luxuries anymore (and gamming is one, I'm afraid). And hopefully temporarily, until wife gets a new job. Thank you for the best whishes :)

And now for something completely different, here's a rant:
It's incredible how companies are messing up with the most basic rules of the http protocol. Because that particular keyboard isn't available in Portugal, the link Gfreeman provides leads me to a 404 page, since the domain logitech.com redirects me to the Portuguese website (http://www.logitech.com/pt-pt/home), which doesn't even have the same format of the main site in US. I hope the most basic task of sharing links isn't going to become a thing of the past due to these companies callous disregard for proper web usage.

Been told about that keyboard before, GFreeman. The person who did never got back to me since. If you remember, in maybe 3 or 4 months do post about how the keys feel then. One of the biggest problems with rubber domes is that their noise level increase as they get used, becoming just as loud as any cherry brown switch mechanical keyboard.
 
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GFreeman

Coastermaker
Right.. Let's see how it hangs on in the long run. I don't mind a little noise while typing actually. If it's not too bad..
 
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