An interesting read...

[madmat]

http://www.alternet.org/story/14839/

Read and discuss.

Rob, after reading this, if you don't put it on the front page for interesting reading I'll be disappointed.

 

[Rob Williams]

I would post about it... but as far as I'm concerned, this has never been much of a secret. Why do you think massive SUV's are featured in so many rap videos? Ever see a rapper that didn't have the ego the size of a US state? Ever meet a Hummer owner who wasn't the same way?

The only reasonable SUV's are the size of Ford Escapes, which is why mostly soccer moms drive them.

 

[madmat]

RAV4's and the ilk aren't bad as far as SUV's go but I still think that there being verifiable proof that assholes drive SUV's, big SUV's mind you, is still noteworthy.

While I disagree with a few things in the article it is nice to know that people are finally becoming disillusioned with the SUV.

 

[Rob Williams]

I doubt all SUV drivers are assholes, but most people who are arrogant or ignorant tend to believe that bigger is better. Many people who own SUV's don't even use them for their intended design (sport-utility).

 

[madmat]

I should've reworded that, that big SUV owners (owners of big SUV's mind you, I don't mean portly people that own SUV's) are assholes as they have no caring of any of the consequences that the huge land yacht they drive may have. Some people have SUV's for reasons such as needing 4WD 10% of the year, going off roading, etc. Then there are those that like the SUV styling yet go for the smaller more fuel efficient versions. Then you have the self centered assholes that don't care that the vehicle is a gross polluter, can kill car drivers and passengers in a collision, offer obstructed view to their drivers and fellow motorists alike, don't handle worth a damn at high speeds, etc, etc, etc yet don't care and buy them anyway.

I don't know what the SUV scene is like up in the great white yonder but here in metro Atlanta it's absolutely horrid. There are so many non-drivers that are behind the wheel of those monsters that you begin to loathe them and their drivers en masse.

 

[Metatron]

I agree with mat, I live in Northern Indiana, US. and large suv owners are the worst on the road. Not to mention their idiot mentality that they are invincible and their kid is the best their school has ever seen.
Arrogant if you ask me, driving around in a 60k $ vehicle that handles about like the cheapest car your can buy, and then these yahoos have the nerve to give me a hard time about the car I'm driving(safety, reliability, appearance)

 

[moon111]

I think the slant of that story holds more truth the closer you get to the city. 'City' people often grow up without the opportunity to ever learn how a vehicle handles. They haven't done stunts on a dirt road, owned a 'field car', etc. All they've done is drive on paved lines. Maybe it's from driving larger trucks, but I try to keep a safe stopping distance between me and the car ahead of me. When you start trying to swerve, you're risking multi-lane accidents, or in the case of an SUV, a roll-over. The vehicle isn't the problem, it's the driver who doesn't know how to safely use it.

Personally everyone I know that has an SUV, also owns a trailer that they pull with it. I dare say they might be able to do the same with a mini-van, but would hold up traffic on steep grades. Would definately want auxilary transaxle cooler, etc. For those I see acting like the article mentions, I dare say if it wasn't an SUV, they'd be driving something else and acting the same way.

For the mechanic in me, SUV's are awesome. Easy to work on. They have a hood. Some you can get under without jacking up. Because the wife has a minivan though, I prefer a truck because I need cargo, not passenger space.

 

[On_Wisconsin]

Pretty true for those who live in the city and/or where it doesn't snow. Having our Jeep Grand Cherokee hurts in the wallet outside of winter, but it is almost necessary for those who have to wake up before the snowplows...or even for people living in the middle of nowhere and have no snowplows.

On the other end, the same could be said for Hybrid owners...

 

[madmat]

I think the slant of that story holds more truth the closer you get to the city. 'City' people often grow up without the opportunity to ever learn how a vehicle handles. They haven't done stunts on a dirt road, owned a 'field car', etc. All they've done is drive on paved lines. Maybe it's from driving larger trucks, but I try to keep a safe stopping distance between me and the car ahead of me. When you start trying to swerve, you're risking multi-lane accidents, or in the case of an SUV, a roll-over. The vehicle isn't the problem, it's the driver who doesn't know how to safely use it.

Personally everyone I know that has an SUV, also owns a trailer that they pull with it. I dare say they might be able to do the same with a mini-van, but would hold up traffic on steep grades. Would definately want auxilary transaxle cooler, etc. For those I see acting like the article mentions, I dare say if it wasn't an SUV, they'd be driving something else and acting the same way.

For the mechanic in me, SUV's are awesome. Easy to work on. They have a hood. Some you can get under without jacking up. Because the wife has a minivan though, I prefer a truck because I need cargo, not passenger space.

Well, I think that they allowed for the folks that have a real need for an SUV but sadly I'm afraid that 99% of owners don't fall into that category. Out in the country 4WD pickups are more predominant over SUV's as most country dwellers don't need a covered cargo area.

Pretty true for those who live in the city and/or where it doesn't snow. Having our Jeep Grand Cherokee hurts in the wallet outside of winter, but it is almost necessary for those who have to wake up before the snowplows...or even for people living in the middle of nowhere and have no snowplows.

On the other end, the same could be said for Hybrid owners...

I don't think that hybrid owners are aware of the ecological toll that battery production for hybrid vehicles exacts on the environment. The news is, on the other hand, full of stories outlining the dangers of SUV's. It's kind of odd that the mainstream media hasn't picked up on the hybrid's green failings though.

 

[Kougar]

I don't think that hybrid owners are aware of the ecological toll that battery production for hybrid vehicles exacts on the environment. The news is, on the other hand, full of stories outlining the dangers of SUV's. It's kind of odd that the mainstream media hasn't picked up on the hybrid's green failings though.

Nothing is truly green if you start factoring in production "costs" on the environment. I just look at the other end of the timeline, what happens when the product must be replaced, such as if it can be completely resused. Thankfully we can fully recycle hybrid battery packs into new batteries or break them down into their individual base metals for use in other things. Considering that by most estimates 9 out of 10 car batteries are now recycled through the mechnaics as with used oil, this should be even less of an issue with hybrid battery packs that aren't exactly user servicable.

 

[madmat]

Nothing is truly green if you start factoring in production "costs" on the environment. I just look at the other end of the timeline, what happens when the product must be replaced, such as if it can be completely resused. Thankfully we can fully recycle hybrid battery packs into new batteries or break them down into their individual base metals for use in other things. Considering that by most estimates 9 out of 10 car batteries are now recycled through the mechnaics as with used oil, this should be even less of an issue with hybrid battery packs that aren't exactly user servicable.

True but they use way more batteries than a more traditional car does. The problem is that there are gasoline cars on the road that get mileage on par with the hybrids currently out. Until the hybrid can far outstrip a standard internal combustion powered vehicle, even a very well engineered engine running insanely high VE, it won't become more widely respected.

 

[Rob Williams]

The problem is that there are gasoline cars on the road that get mileage on par with the hybrids currently out. Until the hybrid can far outstrip a standard internal combustion powered vehicle, even a very well engineered engine running insanely high VE, it won't become more widely respected.

On the first Top Gear for the new season, they did a test like that. Toyota Prius vs. BMW M3... driving responsibly, and at the same speeds, the M3 achieved something like 2MPG better than the Prius.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wq9ilgw1plc

 

[madmat]

On the first Top Gear for the new season, they did a test like that. Toyota Prius vs. BMW M3... driving responsibly, and at the same speeds, the M3 achieved something like 2MPG better than the Prius.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wq9ilgw1plc

Why am I not surprised.

 

[Krazy K]

owners of big SUV's mind you, I don't mean portly people that own SUV's)

OFF TOPIC
Another example of Mothers of America. Who says portly?
I guess if they can't accept the fact that they have a fragile ego and hence must drive something we call 'overkill', an obese person would just suggest to you that he or she is genetically flawed, or it is a thyroid problem.

 

[madmat]

Nah bro.. I'm "portly", "obese", "fat", "soft around the middle", "fluffy" or what have you and it's not a thyroid problem, I just likes my food. I have lost almost 30 pounds in the past few months though.


As to who says "portly" I do because while I know that I'm overweight I don't like people shoving it in my face and while it might not hurt my ego or damage my self worth they won't enjoy dislodging my size 12 from their rectum for their trouble of pointing the obvious out to me.

 

[Kougar]

On the first Top Gear for the new season, they did a test like that. Toyota Prius vs. BMW M3... driving responsibly, and at the same speeds, the M3 achieved something like 2MPG better than the Prius.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wq9ilgw1plc

While I don't tend to give over generalizations much credence anymore, it's simply way to true that driver habits are why most cars have such poor gas mileage, or even worse mileage than they are rated for... you could give them a 40MPG car and they'll likely drive even faster, negating any MPG gains that existed. Americans as a whole, at least 90% of those on the road just need to learn how to drive.

Doing 80mph up until the last second when you see traffic is slowing around a mile in front, or cruising along at 70mph only to tap the breaks when you get to close to the car in front of you, then pushing the accelerator to reach 70 before braking again as you run out of space and continually trying to drive at 70 regardless of the traffic around you is again just stupid. Playing lane roulette to get 3 cars ahead before traffic stops is even worse, maybe if these people were paying any attention to whom they were actually dodging they'd realize they were passing the same cars repeatedly that had caught up and passed them while they were wedged into one lane behind a slow vehicle.

I drive a Chevy Lumina (the car), the last EPA revisions dropped the MPG to 26 freeway and 18 city, but simply sticking to 65mph and avoiding braking except as necessary nets me ~32MPG. On my last drive I got as high as 40MPG thanks to a semi I was drafting for half of the 300 mile drive here to Houston.

If I added a bit more tire pressure (Found out the new tires were underinflated even) and do 60 instead of 65mph I expect I could hit 45MPG... Not bad for a very heavy, typical large American 26MPG sedan that is 11 years old.

The thing is, you don't need to drive like a little old lady doing 45mph in the rightmost lane to get great gas mileage... although doing 60mph on the 70mph rated interstate means I passed <10 vehicles, and got passed by a couple hundred, especially the semis. You'd think they could save a few hundred dollars a fill up driving those square boxes slower and not riding the brakes... I don't really have any sympathy anymore when people mention it costs them well over a thousand to tank up on of those big rigs.