Top 5 Wii Downfalls
- Thread starter Rob Williams
- Start date
D
dapimple
Guest
Response
I question the intent and the validity of the argument in this post. When even 20% of an argument fails, the legitimacy of the conclusion is suspect.
The Wii could not be improved by removing its motion control, as the system was designed around this central feature. Asking it to be removed to be more like traditional game systems is wishing for the Wii to be another console entirely. The system introduces a different way to play the same games we have been accustomed to, and is marketed as such. The desire for the tried and true control pad belongs to an individual for which the console is not intended.
Imagine if you will a car with an automatic transmission (AT) and a car with a manual transmission. An individual with a preference for AT who would rather not deal with having to physically change gears would not purchase such a car. Those who enjoy the visceral experience of doing so, on the other hand, would accept this concept without pause and simply utilize and enjoy their car.
Ultimately, in the case of the Wii's motion control, a preference for one product is not indicative that the unchosen product is flawed.
Similar arguments could be made for bullet points #1, #4 and #5.
I question the intent and the validity of the argument in this post. When even 20% of an argument fails, the legitimacy of the conclusion is suspect.
The Wii could not be improved by removing its motion control, as the system was designed around this central feature. Asking it to be removed to be more like traditional game systems is wishing for the Wii to be another console entirely. The system introduces a different way to play the same games we have been accustomed to, and is marketed as such. The desire for the tried and true control pad belongs to an individual for which the console is not intended.
Imagine if you will a car with an automatic transmission (AT) and a car with a manual transmission. An individual with a preference for AT who would rather not deal with having to physically change gears would not purchase such a car. Those who enjoy the visceral experience of doing so, on the other hand, would accept this concept without pause and simply utilize and enjoy their car.
Ultimately, in the case of the Wii's motion control, a preference for one product is not indicative that the unchosen product is flawed.
Similar arguments could be made for bullet points #1, #4 and #5.
"The Wii could not be improved by removing its motion control, as the system was designed around this central feature."
I am hardly asking for the control to be removed. The fact is, it -is- the central feature of this console, and that's where the problem lies. Every single game out (excluding virtual console) requires you use the motion sensing capabilities in some way or another.
My point is, even though this is a "cool" feature now, how long is this state of euphoria going to last? I can not see it lasting very long. Though it has good points, it has an equal amount of bad points as far as I am concerned.
Take the Virtual Boy... it brought on "virtual reality" although it was completely laughable. The games were not too bad, but it was headache inducing. The Wii is not headache inducing, but requires people sweat to play a game. If I wanted to excerise, I wouldn't buy a game system.
"Ultimately, in the case of the Wii's motion control, a preference for one product is not indicative that the unchosen product is flawed."
I could have made this article 2 pages, but I decided not to. Truth is, the console -is- flawed, but I didn't touch up on it in the article. Even for the small parts in Zelda, the motion control is a huge pain in the ass... tight control is hardly the idea that comes to mind. I am not alone here.. two of my friends have the same game and have experienced the same. IGNs review of the game noted that the motion control "added" to the depth of the game. Haha!
Either way, we are obviously not going to agree. You enjoy your Wii, and that's all that matters. After I complete Zelda, I'll start using it to emulate my GameCube games.
I am hardly asking for the control to be removed. The fact is, it -is- the central feature of this console, and that's where the problem lies. Every single game out (excluding virtual console) requires you use the motion sensing capabilities in some way or another.
My point is, even though this is a "cool" feature now, how long is this state of euphoria going to last? I can not see it lasting very long. Though it has good points, it has an equal amount of bad points as far as I am concerned.
Take the Virtual Boy... it brought on "virtual reality" although it was completely laughable. The games were not too bad, but it was headache inducing. The Wii is not headache inducing, but requires people sweat to play a game. If I wanted to excerise, I wouldn't buy a game system.
"Ultimately, in the case of the Wii's motion control, a preference for one product is not indicative that the unchosen product is flawed."
I could have made this article 2 pages, but I decided not to. Truth is, the console -is- flawed, but I didn't touch up on it in the article. Even for the small parts in Zelda, the motion control is a huge pain in the ass... tight control is hardly the idea that comes to mind. I am not alone here.. two of my friends have the same game and have experienced the same. IGNs review of the game noted that the motion control "added" to the depth of the game. Haha!
Either way, we are obviously not going to agree. You enjoy your Wii, and that's all that matters. After I complete Zelda, I'll start using it to emulate my GameCube games.
U
Unregistered
Guest
When exactly was this system touted as the "coolest system ever"? It was definitely the underdog against the ps3 and 360; most people were of the opinion that it'd do about as well as the gamecube; not until after launch did it explode into popularity (good word of mouth, I would guess..).
As for the "no premium unit" argument; why? It'd cost more for wireless, so why not just pick up a wireless router? One of the selling points of the wii was price, so I doubt nintendo wanted to up the cost..
"Too Much Motion"..can you use the classics controller on wii games? If so, your point is moot.
I disagree about the "clunky" setup as well; I've had no problems, and using the remote instead of a d-pad for entering data is no trouble.
I can't really say anything about your #1 point as I've only played wii sports and zelda.
Overall, imo, you're just looking for things not to like. If you want to write a good article on the failings of a game system, get yourself a ps3.
As for the "no premium unit" argument; why? It'd cost more for wireless, so why not just pick up a wireless router? One of the selling points of the wii was price, so I doubt nintendo wanted to up the cost..
"Too Much Motion"..can you use the classics controller on wii games? If so, your point is moot.
I disagree about the "clunky" setup as well; I've had no problems, and using the remote instead of a d-pad for entering data is no trouble.
I can't really say anything about your #1 point as I've only played wii sports and zelda.
Overall, imo, you're just looking for things not to like. If you want to write a good article on the failings of a game system, get yourself a ps3.
R
Rory
Guest
So I get to play the same games but wave my arms around while doing so? This to me is the great Nintendo swindle. They can claim some kind of innovative technical superiority over the PS3 and 360 because of the snazzy new input. Output is the same though, and until we get get trodes that connect directly to our frontal lobes, that's the part of gaming I most connect with.
I will concede that Nintendo now has the hardware to develop the most immersive and faithful computerised version of Pick-Up-Stix mankind has ever known, but it'll still be Pick-Up-Stix.
I guess my biggest beef with the Wii is that it's been touted as some kind of saviour for gamers who demand gameplay. This is also part of the Nintendo swindle. On one side of the playing field are two consoles that are trying to make us buy the same old games with shiny graphics. On the other is a console that offers the same old games (and I really do mean the same old games) with a new input. It doesn't change the fact that it's style over substance.
I can assure you I am not "looking" for things to dislike about it. I don't have to... reasons keep biting me in the ass.
This is by far, the clunkiest system I've ever used, without question. From the second I turned the system on, I could tell it was not going to be a fun ride. Do I just hold a grudge? No. I ran into another foolish problem tonight, where my remote un-synced itself, and then was difficult to re-sync (took me around 10 minutes).
As for the D-pad working for entering data, I will try it again and see what was wrong the first time I tried to do it.
I agree with you on the price factor, that -is- why they chose to do things a very specific way. That still doesn't explain why the console is so clunky and seems unfinished (imo).
"On one side of the playing field are two consoles that are trying to make us buy the same old games with shiny graphics. On the other is a console that offers the same old games (and I really do mean the same old games) with a new input. It doesn't change the fact that it's style over substance. - Rory"
That's an interesting thought.
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U
Unregistered
Guest
I play games primarily on my pc, so when I play consoles I generally find them unwielding and ackward.
However, I borrowed my buddy's Wii to give it a try. There was a learning curve regarding the wiimote's fuctionality and then intergrating the nunchuck into that. But once I got it down I was having fun standing in my living room playing Madden's mini games (I don't play football games ever, its not my game prefrence) and when I put in Red Steel, which was so widely given terrible reviews, I had more fun then ever. I was flying through levels blowing enemies away, the evironment exploding around me and am now actually suprised by its poor reviews.
My friend however had given up on Red Steel quite some time ago unable to get the control of the game down. He is a primarily console gamer, though. So I wonder if some of the difficulties people find with the system stem from previous prefrences between console and pc gaming.
However, I borrowed my buddy's Wii to give it a try. There was a learning curve regarding the wiimote's fuctionality and then intergrating the nunchuck into that. But once I got it down I was having fun standing in my living room playing Madden's mini games (I don't play football games ever, its not my game prefrence) and when I put in Red Steel, which was so widely given terrible reviews, I had more fun then ever. I was flying through levels blowing enemies away, the evironment exploding around me and am now actually suprised by its poor reviews.
My friend however had given up on Red Steel quite some time ago unable to get the control of the game down. He is a primarily console gamer, though. So I wonder if some of the difficulties people find with the system stem from previous prefrences between console and pc gaming.
U
Unregistered
Guest
A Response
"Two of my friends have the same game and have experienced the same."
Anecdotal evidence does not particularly make a strong point, especially when referring to friends. I could deliver a counterpoint with my family's experience and it would be a wash.
Irregardless, it is true that we most likely will not agree on the merits of the Wii as a sustainable form of entertainment, as compared to the traditional consoles represented by the Xbox 360 and the PS3. Individuals, such as yourself, are content with the manner that games are played today. This method has been refined over two decades, works, and works well. Some people though enjoy the visceral element that the Wii adds to games, whether it be as rudimentary as replacing a button press with a predetermined gesture or as intricate as requiring precise on-screen aiming. Motion control should be allowed to improve over time and not be condemned outright based on a period of 5 weeks.
I continue to contend that it is simply a matter of taste, and the market will decide whether the meat and potatoes gaming we have all grown up will continue to dominate or whether there is room for something different. I have no preference in who wins or loses, but I do believe that the Wii is a refreshing change in gaming that should be embraced, rather than be disregarded, for its novelty.
Anyways, keep up the great writing and continue to fuel the passionate fires of tech enthusiasts everwhere.
"Two of my friends have the same game and have experienced the same."
Anecdotal evidence does not particularly make a strong point, especially when referring to friends. I could deliver a counterpoint with my family's experience and it would be a wash.
Irregardless, it is true that we most likely will not agree on the merits of the Wii as a sustainable form of entertainment, as compared to the traditional consoles represented by the Xbox 360 and the PS3. Individuals, such as yourself, are content with the manner that games are played today. This method has been refined over two decades, works, and works well. Some people though enjoy the visceral element that the Wii adds to games, whether it be as rudimentary as replacing a button press with a predetermined gesture or as intricate as requiring precise on-screen aiming. Motion control should be allowed to improve over time and not be condemned outright based on a period of 5 weeks.
I continue to contend that it is simply a matter of taste, and the market will decide whether the meat and potatoes gaming we have all grown up will continue to dominate or whether there is room for something different. I have no preference in who wins or loses, but I do believe that the Wii is a refreshing change in gaming that should be embraced, rather than be disregarded, for its novelty.
Anyways, keep up the great writing and continue to fuel the passionate fires of tech enthusiasts everwhere.
U
Unregistered
Guest
As for the components cable, i bought this ( not available until Dec-20 )
http://www.play-asia.com/paOS-13-71-10z-49-en-70-1rch.html
but i love my wiiiii
My mother , who has NEVER played a game, loves tennis one ( wii sports )
But of course, not more than 10 minutes .. she gets tired
http://www.play-asia.com/paOS-13-71-10z-49-en-70-1rch.html
but i love my wiiiii
My mother , who has NEVER played a game, loves tennis one ( wii sports )
But of course, not more than 10 minutes .. she gets tired
U
Unregistered
Guest
Then whats the point of buying a Wii?
U
Unregistered
Guest
I cannot believe I wasted my time reading that totally retarded piece of opinion. Ever heard of objectivity? Or does it get in the way of writing a rant?
Well, it's somewhat the same for my family. Everyone I know loves the included sport games... even I enjoy the bowling one. It's the only game that I found the motion control to be GOOD. That's the type of simple game where this type of control does well.
As for the components cable, i bought this ( not available until Dec-20 )
http://www.play-asia.com/paOS-13-71-10z-49-en-70-1rch.html
but i love my wiiiii
My mother , who has NEVER played a game, loves tennis one ( wii sports )
But of course, not more than 10 minutes .. she gets tired
That actually looks identical to the real cables, as far as I know. I think I will wait until Madcatz (I think it was them) finally release their cables. They should hurry up though, they are going to earn a nice profit.
Sorry you found it to be more of a "rant" than an article. Maybe it was part both. Still, I don't have anything here I'd change.
U
Unregistered
Guest
The lack of choice of old titles is most likely due to
1) Not overwhelming users with choice - too much choice can lead to users simply giving up and avoiding getting titles, or immediately getting the couple of titles they want and ignoring it for the rest of time.
2) Keeping up the interest with weekly game additions.
I found the article rather pointless and ranty overall. Why do we want yet another 'thumb fiddling' console like you want it to be? The post above regarding Red Steel shows that the Wiimote can be used in traditional games in a gameplay (and FUN) enhancing manner - once you're used to it. The vast number of rave reviews of the Wii, and raving rabbids, etc, shows that the vast number of people are really enjoying the system and the control mechanism.
I agree that the lack of web browser and weather channel is rather poor, especially since they've had three weeks now to release them. However they will appear and it isn't core console functionality.
1) Not overwhelming users with choice - too much choice can lead to users simply giving up and avoiding getting titles, or immediately getting the couple of titles they want and ignoring it for the rest of time.
2) Keeping up the interest with weekly game additions.
I found the article rather pointless and ranty overall. Why do we want yet another 'thumb fiddling' console like you want it to be? The post above regarding Red Steel shows that the Wiimote can be used in traditional games in a gameplay (and FUN) enhancing manner - once you're used to it. The vast number of rave reviews of the Wii, and raving rabbids, etc, shows that the vast number of people are really enjoying the system and the control mechanism.
I agree that the lack of web browser and weather channel is rather poor, especially since they've had three weeks now to release them. However they will appear and it isn't core console functionality.
Thanks for the constructive critism, you make some great points.
The web browser feature may have me the most confused, since it's not bundled in to begin with. The browser has been known for months to be included with the Wii, but it's just not there. As far as I recall, even the Sega Dreamcast, which promised web surfing, had it in the box.
"The vast number of rave reviews of the Wii, and raving rabbids, etc, shows that the vast number of people are really enjoying the system and the control mechanism."
I agree. I am still wondering how long this feeling of enjoyment will last, before people begin to get tired of it. I can give kudos to Nintendo for at least being a little more innovative than Sony.
The web browser feature may have me the most confused, since it's not bundled in to begin with. The browser has been known for months to be included with the Wii, but it's just not there. As far as I recall, even the Sega Dreamcast, which promised web surfing, had it in the box.
"The vast number of rave reviews of the Wii, and raving rabbids, etc, shows that the vast number of people are really enjoying the system and the control mechanism."
I agree. I am still wondering how long this feeling of enjoyment will last, before people begin to get tired of it. I can give kudos to Nintendo for at least being a little more innovative than Sony.
U
Unregistered
Guest
"Thanks to the shortages though, a cable is not currently possible unless you want to pay $100+ for one online. Personally, I am waiting for some third parties to come to the rescue."
simply untrue. You can get component cables from Nintendo.com for 29.95. I've purchased a set recently. It did take a couple weeks to get them because of demand, but hey, the Wii is still in high demand too so big deal. In fact, I got the cables, but I'm still waiting on my Wii
simply untrue. You can get component cables from Nintendo.com for 29.95. I've purchased a set recently. It did take a couple weeks to get them because of demand, but hey, the Wii is still in high demand too so big deal. In fact, I got the cables, but I'm still waiting on my Wii
U
Unregistered
Guest
One of the main points about the online capabilities you seem to be overlooking is that both M$ and Sony touted full online service for their respective consoles to be available at launch.
Now correct me if I'm wrong considering I'm not from a territory that has all three consoles launched yet, the PS3s online service is also severely lacking in content. The difference is, Nintendo never claimed their online service to be fully available at launch.
Regarding the setup and 'clunky' GUI, I had no problems setting it up at all. Adding friends with the codes was easy (if you own a DS, this would have been instantly identifiable to you), write down the codes and add them as you go. I can also navigate around the menus using the D-pad, didn't have any problems there. But that said, don't get me wrong, some of the controls for games (e.g. Red Steel) feel tacked on as an afterthought and almost feel counter-intuitive.
To sum up, I think Nintendo will continue to be Nintendo, bucking against the trend of what is normal and flouting all ideals about what gaming SHOULD be.
Now correct me if I'm wrong considering I'm not from a territory that has all three consoles launched yet, the PS3s online service is also severely lacking in content. The difference is, Nintendo never claimed their online service to be fully available at launch.
Regarding the setup and 'clunky' GUI, I had no problems setting it up at all. Adding friends with the codes was easy (if you own a DS, this would have been instantly identifiable to you), write down the codes and add them as you go. I can also navigate around the menus using the D-pad, didn't have any problems there. But that said, don't get me wrong, some of the controls for games (e.g. Red Steel) feel tacked on as an afterthought and almost feel counter-intuitive.
To sum up, I think Nintendo will continue to be Nintendo, bucking against the trend of what is normal and flouting all ideals about what gaming SHOULD be.
I was referring to eBay, and the fact if people wanted them "now". I understand the demand, that was my point.
I do own a DS but never bothered, or tried to set it up before. I only own one game. Regardless, I still found the UI to be clunky and uninspired.
As for the Online features, fair enough. I would have expected at -least- the web browser. How hard could it have been to have a browser at launch?
U
Unregistered
Guest
Excellent satire; Swift would be proud.
U
Unregistered
Guest
Then you should be more specific in your articles. Anything else would be disingenuous. Because as the statement stands by itself, the fact is that it is completely false.
Buck-O
Coastermaker
I wont get to lengthy on this, as if you wish to read more of my comments about the Wii, you can go back to the main review forum, and scroll down to the TOny Hawk review, for the long winded version.
But, i will recap some high points.
I agree with the statement made earlier in the thread about the choices in gaming. We have two powerhouse consoles with rehashed, repolished, tech demos for games, that offer very little in teh way of substance, or truely fun gameplay. And on the other side we have a console with tired graphics, tired ideas, and a control scheme that has taken a bit to long to actually make it into production.
Repeated from my other post...I dont really consider the Wii to be a next generation console, but rather an alternative generation console, that give those who do own a true next gen system (360, PS3), the option of somthing that can be played with non-gamers, kids, and girlfriends alike. There is no question that the graphics, could, and should be better. And that the console seems to be an afterthought designed to give them somthing to use their new controler with.
It definately offers somthing different, but not better.
As Rob said, the facination with the Wii is that it IS different, and most importantly, its relatively cheap (in comparison). But the simple fact is, not everyone is going to want to stand up and play a game every day when they have the chance to. And most games just dont work sitting down, or huddled together in groups on a couch. And as of right now, there are no truely killer apps coming out that will draw people enmas to the Wii. Heck, even teh almighty Zelda has gone by virtually un-noticed.
The one things the Wii may do, is help change the direction of the industry from focusing on tech demos and numbers in teh hardware race, and become a bit more interested in making them more aproachable for all gamers, and appeal to all skills levels, and allow a bit more fun to be put back into the gameplay.
But, i will recap some high points.
I agree with the statement made earlier in the thread about the choices in gaming. We have two powerhouse consoles with rehashed, repolished, tech demos for games, that offer very little in teh way of substance, or truely fun gameplay. And on the other side we have a console with tired graphics, tired ideas, and a control scheme that has taken a bit to long to actually make it into production.
Repeated from my other post...I dont really consider the Wii to be a next generation console, but rather an alternative generation console, that give those who do own a true next gen system (360, PS3), the option of somthing that can be played with non-gamers, kids, and girlfriends alike. There is no question that the graphics, could, and should be better. And that the console seems to be an afterthought designed to give them somthing to use their new controler with.
It definately offers somthing different, but not better.
As Rob said, the facination with the Wii is that it IS different, and most importantly, its relatively cheap (in comparison). But the simple fact is, not everyone is going to want to stand up and play a game every day when they have the chance to. And most games just dont work sitting down, or huddled together in groups on a couch. And as of right now, there are no truely killer apps coming out that will draw people enmas to the Wii. Heck, even teh almighty Zelda has gone by virtually un-noticed.
The one things the Wii may do, is help change the direction of the industry from focusing on tech demos and numbers in teh hardware race, and become a bit more interested in making them more aproachable for all gamers, and appeal to all skills levels, and allow a bit more fun to be put back into the gameplay.