NVIDIA Talks PC Gaming Trends

Rob Williams

Editor-in-Chief
Staff member
Moderator
Some claim that PC gaming is dying, but recent trends disagree. In fact, it looks to be console gaming that's soon to see a decline, thanks in part to a growing number of compelling aspects that PCs offer - including at the very least free-to-play games. Let's take a look at these and other trends, and the reasons behind them.

Read through our look at current PC gaming trends and discuss it hree!
 

Kayden

Tech Monkey
Honestly interesting stuff and I am glad to see there are numbers backing up my opinion about PC gaming making a come back. I will defiantly reference this every chance I get.
 

Doomsday

Tech Junkie
Wohoo! :D

I do have some hate towards the 'always online' stuff like Blizzard is doing in Diablo III though! But i might overlook it once i play it or see it in action!
 

marfig

No ROM battery
Yup. It's good to finally see numbers backing up what we always knew for sure; that PC gaming isn't dead, dying or even hurt.

In fact, one of my main criticism of such news was how deliberately absent of actual evidence they always where. One would expect that a claim like "PC gaming is dead" would require hard evidence and lengthy discussion around it. But no. It was always thrown into some piece of news or an article of opinion as hearsay. For all purposes, "PC gaming is dead" had all the marks of a meme and nothing more. When people would repeat it, they would never took the the time to actually investigate this claim. That's what almost always would drive me up the wall. It's the monkey-see-monkey-do of hearsay on the mainstream internet that I most feel offended by. Often helped by a news media that is increasingly becoming everything but journalistic.

...

Those graphs also show however how physical retail sales are indeed on their last breath. It's the one thing that for the past 10 years made me most sad. I'm old school on this regard and my whole collection is made entirely of physical copies. Even though I'm only now finally getting to know the benefits of digital retail, it's become quite evident to me that I would still love going back to the old days. Despite digital retail having proved to me it is indeed a superior format, other things will always speak louder to me. I dunno, maybe its the strong collector bone in me. But I'll miss actually owning physical copies.

What's interesting to notice is that physical retail of console games still goes strong. If you go to your local mall, you'll indeed find a small, almost laughable, section for PC games, but you'll get more than one aisle for console games. I put the blame for this on the proprietary online shopping that goes on in the console market. Steam and other similar online shops worked for the PC exactly because of their agnostic nature. And that's what I think killed physical retail.
 

Kayden

Tech Monkey
Nvidia is pushing PC gaming and i'm buying AMD GPUs! My bad! :(

As long as it isn't a console, I'm not sure that they care! :D

I have a piece going up on this on another site, when it's published I will link it here. It's based on this article.
 

marfig

No ROM battery
I really would love to dispel some of these console vs pc myths. But I'm just not sure that's worth or I'll be listened.

With all respect, Kayden you need to take a step back and reconsider if it really makes any sense to put up these type of wild conjectures. If you don't think that damages the credibility of your otherwise understandble annoyance. And especially when you don't seem interested in asking questions. Only in providing answers that are coming solely from within your head.
 

Kayden

Tech Monkey
I really would love to dispel some of these console vs pc myths. But I'm just not sure that's worth or I'll be listened.

With all respect, Kayden you need to take a step back and reconsider if it really makes any sense to put up these type of wild conjectures. If you don't think that damages the credibility of your otherwise understandble annoyance. And especially when you don't seem interested in asking questions. Only in providing answers that are coming solely from within your head.

With all respect, marfig because I am voicing an opinion and it's not tied down to being tactful or putting into consideration the feelings of those I offend, I really don't care. Far too often do we see the velvet glove being used in public, instead of using the iron fist, while in the background public speaking people make back room deals that go against what they say! Call me two steps away from Attila the Hun if you wish, but I am not pulling this information out of my butt nor am I trying to use fear tactics to control opinions, I am providing reliable information with my view point.

If you want proof go here and look at "Console Exclusives".
http://www.tweakguides.com/Piracy_6.html


Now, I am sure with anything I can put out you can contradict me with another such article refuting it. The problem is choice, what do you choose to believe? That will always come back to a persons core beliefs based on their environment, in general a choice is made in comfort and with in a boundary reason based on experience. The choice I have made is based on what I have seen, heard, trended and all out experienced, does it go back to the fact I am a PC gamer, you bet it is and I am proud of it. There is a place for console gaming, but because companies have taken advantage of the market and used fear tactics to push companies into investing in consoles (like PC piracy), I call them out on it.

These opinion are based on facts, and there are more facts to back up my opinion. Too many times I have heard people say console gaming is better but I have not seen it become open or dynamic to allow gamers choice, instead it's a closed platform and forces you to keep paying the developer of said console for things they want, not what the customer wants. If I am so wrong in this why can't I use my PS3 controller on a 360 or a Keyboard and mouse on any console for gaming? Because the FACT is it's closed.

I implore you marfig, if you believe I am making a baseless claim and not being objective, to prove it. Do not spout rhetoric I'm damaging my reputation because my opinion has no basis in fact, which is what you are saying in summation. I am not compromising my opinion behind closed doors, nor am I going to try put blinders on to what is happening around me. I am honest, I am open about my opinions and I most certainly credible. The truth is never convenient and neither am I. Lastly, it is insulting to hear you say those things about me, when you yourself are not proving your opinion and that is all I will say on the subject.
 

marfig

No ROM battery
>> With all respect, marfig because I am voicing an opinion and it's not tied down to being tactful or putting into consideration the feelings of those I offend, I really don't care.

Your opinion didn't offend me, if that's what you think.

>> If you want proof go here and look at "Console Exclusives http://www.tweakguides.com/Piracy_6.html

Kayden, you cannot make use of the word "proof" in the context of an non credited, non supported, and lacking any credible source piece of information. If you care so much about facts -- and I'm glad you do -- you should know this.

>> Now, I am sure with anything I can put out you can contradict me with another such article refuting it.

No. I have no interest in using that tactic. I dislike it too. I'd more interested in explaining to you why you see such methodology being applied to games that run ob both consoles and the PC.

>> The problem is choice, what do you choose to believe? That will always come back to a persons core beliefs based on their environment, in general a choice is made in comfort and with in a boundary reason based on experience.

I think that's an excellent choice of words and pretty much defines "belief" in this context. My question is thus, exactly what experience do you have around gaming studios, publishers and console makers? Because your belief that Sony is paying DICE to put the DLCs on the console first, in light of your own words, must somehow rely on your your reason and experience.

>> These opinion are based on facts, and there are more facts to back up my opinion.

I'm sorry. But I have never seen a fact that demonstrates either Sony or Microsoft are paying developers to publish first on the console. Care to show me these facts?

>> I implore you marfig, if you believe I am making a baseless claim and not being objective, to prove it. Do not spout rhetoric I'm damaging my reputation because my opinion has no basis in fact, which is what you are saying in summation.

I certainly didn't mean to imply your reputation is being damaged. What I said is that the value and the credibility of your article is being damaged. I don't think one leads to the other. I've personally made baseless claims in the past, thinking I had all bases covered. I was however demonstrated I didn't give the problem a better thought. In my eagerness to find answers, I forgot to ask the questions. That is, I ended up coming up with my own answers basing them on belief and opinion making. Nothing of that ever damaged my reputation.

But for the rest yes, I am claiming you have no manner of support to claim that Sony is paying for BF3 DLCs to be published on the console first. You certainly, at least, didn't make an effort showing where exactly you base this opinion. I must remind you, you are the one using the words "opinion" and "facts" on the same context. At some point you must realize something is wrong with this picture.

>> Lastly, it is insulting to hear you say those things about me, when you yourself are not proving your opinion and that is all I will say on the subject.[/QUOTE]

I apologize. Something must definitely be wrong with me. What exactly, I'm not sure I understand. But lately, every time that I have tried to confront someone I end up apparently be offensive. I'm just not sure how.

I always see some manner of offense myself in some of the things that get said to me, but I do just dismiss them because I'm just not easily offended and I'm pretty sure your's not the intention to offend me. So, believing you do the exact same thing before reaching the conclusion I'm being offensive, it's must be that I'm wrong and you are right. I'm offensive. For that I apologize. I'll try somehow to find what's wrong with me.

As for me proving my point, that's a bit hard when I have not made it yet. As I suspected you didn't demonstrate any interest in it, even though I offered to do such on the very first paragraph of my earlier post. That's my criticism of your attitude to this whole issue. You just don't seem to want to question why things are the way they are. You are more interested in providing answers that fit your beliefs, as you've put it.
 
Last edited:

Superman

Obliviot
Why are you being insulting and not being objective?

Only in providing answers that are coming solely from within your head.
This is just an insult and not anything useful. You are showing how close minded you are and, how you only care for consoles and not in favor of PC's

Now lets get to being objective shall we
With all respect, Kayden you need to take a step back and reconsider if it really makes any sense to put up these type of wild conjectures. If you don't think that damages the credibility of your otherwise understandble annoyance.
Look if you have valid point bring it up. In Kayden's original post he quoted Rob Williams
NVIDIA Talks PC Gaming Trends
Please point out where, ANY WHERE in that article where is says that consoles are better than PCs.
The 360 is over 8 years old from a development point of view and, much older from a market point of view. There is no way that Microsoft put a brand new 2003 video processor to put in its new Xbox.

Now as for the 360 technology here is a link to history of it.
Xbox 360 wiki
I am quoting: "On August 12, 2003, ATI signed on to produce the graphic processing unit for the new console, a deal which was publicly announced two days later."
So when they started making the designs for the 360 it was based on a 2003 market, now I can tell you for a fact that the video card in the 360 is not from a 2003 PC based video card. I had bought the best one that year for a PC and the 360 did not compare to the PC even at that the time of its release.
This is what the graph shows from 2005, but even by those standards it was already old.
nvidia_trends_02.png

Now lets get into direct X.
Direct X 9 was released in 2002,
Direct X 9.1c was released in 2004 which is not compatible for Xbox 360.
Now why would a company who is dedicated to consoles make an engine that its flagship console platform can't run?
One answer, they wanted to make money. Like everyone does.
And by 2007 the 360 was already so out dated that not even the direct x 10 engine MADE BY MICROSOFT (who makes the 360) could run on the 360 again, no support for future, even if it's in house and they know about.
But that further drives home the fact that consoles are OLD AND OUTDATED even from the company who makes direct X.

Now lets get into the engine.
The 360 uses the unreal 3 engine which began development in early 2005 or 2004, however it was announced in 2005, link alert!
Midway Games: Unreal Engine 3 Licensing Interview
Now this was good for the time but today we have higher standards.
-More than 16 people in Multiplayer
-Better graphics
-Destructible buildings in real time
-On and on and on and on that are limitations to these consoles.
I could get more into all the limitations of the engine but I don't need to because there are so many reviews that drive this home already.

Now I will get into the new standards of PC gaming.
So lets talk about a game that is actually made for the PC then ported to console. Which is the way it should be.
Battlefield 3, go back to the top and click for Rob's original review because it has some great BF3 images there. Link alert!
Battlefield 3 will need monster rig to run on ultra settings
This new configuration needed for BF3 is extremely intense.
Now how is this suppose to run on a console?
One answer, they dumb it down.
I have no doubts that the sales for this game will be HUGH on the console.
But the PC will be 1,000,000 times better in quality then sales. When people see how much better it can be with a PC they will switch. Especially if they realize that they can connect a PC to a TV and sit on their couch to play and, also use their 360 controller. :eek:

Finally costs.
Just look at how many fees Microsoft SHOVE DOWN GAMERS THROATS! WHICH IS PURE PROFIT!
Why do you have to pay an online subscription just to play game you have already paid for?
Its ridiculous to keep paying and paying a company who only wants to control how you spend your money so you can only pay them. Microsoft and Sony.
At least on a PC you pay for it once and you can you play online.
MMOs don't count!
Even free to play MMOs games are no subscription and you don't pay the man for the privilege to play on his network, also known as the INTERNET, which you ALREADY pay for.



--------------------------------------- In summation:---------------------------------------
Marfig you are not seeing the BIG picture and, there is no room for slander or denigration of another persons opinion even when he says its an opinion.

The 360 is overly out dated.
There is only room for it in the market because Microsoft is making money and spending it to developers to solely focus on THEIR PRODUCT.
They have no control over PCs, only their console.

There are way too many issues and limitations to stay with a console today compared to a PC.

In 2005 it was debatable to go with a console rather than a PC without direct X 9.1c, but buy 2007 with the release of direct X 10 any game written for it was based on 5 year old technology with direct X 9.
And today we have direct X 11 which was released earlier this year and, no game yet has even come close to maxing any PCs potential with direct X 11 exclusive gaming. BF3 is hopefully going to max out our extreme rigs.

PCs stay with the trend of technology. Consoles CAN NOT!
By today's standards (and yes we will live in the now, not then) PC gaming is the only way to play a decent game with the technology today.
If you are still playing solely on a console then you are paying for a game that has lost 90% (again by today's standards, look at the graph of performance) of potential. :eek:
 

Superman

Obliviot
>> These opinion are based on facts, and there are more facts to back up my opinion.

I'm sorry. But I have never seen a fact that demonstrates either Sony or Microsoft are paying developers to publish first on the console. Care to show me these facts?

Here you go, link alert!
Microsoft paying developers to port iPhone apps to Windows Mobile 7?
There paying developers now for their phone, there is no reasonable argument that you can make that would say that Microsoft isn't paying developers to make their consoles be in the for front of gaming rather than PCs.

I think I answered the rest on my previous post.
 

marfig

No ROM battery
This is just an insult and not anything useful. You are showing how close minded you are and, how you only care for consoles and not in favor of PC's

Superman, you are in for a surprise if you actually think I care for consoles... at all. The thing is I share the same distaste for these gaming platforms as anyone else in here, and what they have been doing to PC gaming. I just don't try to justify that annoyance (and sometimes even anger) with unsubstantiated claims of a certain gravity that... and this is the kicker... actually offend the companies and the people behind the games we love.

Look if you have valid point bring it up.

Right on my next post on this thread, I will. I'm just making some finishing touches. Sorry for not having done it sooner. But between the moment I started it, after I first read Kayden's article, and now, house chores got in between and my wife wouldn't hear otherwise.

In Kayden's original post he quoted Rob Williams
NVIDIA Talks PC Gaming Trends
Please point out where, ANY WHERE in that article where is says that consoles are better than PCs.

Err, nowhere. It's the article attached to this very thread. Did you realize that? The question is, where did I say that? Or what made you think that I actually even came close to mean that? Is it because I reject an unfounded theory that Sony payed DICE money to release on the console first that somehow I'm immediately in favor of consoles?
 

Kayden

Tech Monkey
Here marfig here is your proof it has happened, and there is nothing to suggest it has stopped. Took me a while to remember what game but it came to me.

http://www.wired.com/gamelife/2007/06/take_two_gets_5/

Your also getting nothing further me on this, your saying it can't be out there and you aren't willing to educate yourself, which is not my job. My job is to promote critical thinking about issues, look for said information and have you draw your own conclusions, not stand up and go into a point and counter point with because you don't agree. I have said this my opinion on these facts, I have never said what I am saying is factual because I prefer PC gaming. Read what I write, not what you want my friend.
 
Last edited:

marfig

No ROM battery
Why would Developers prefer Console Development and why would Publishers prefer Console Releases to Occur Earlier than PC Releases?

It's become evident to anyone who's been following PC gaming trends that consoles having been having an impact on both game studios and publishers. We've all heard the stories of famed and beloved PC gaming studios turning into exclusive console development. Even members of the PCGA have being launching exclusive titles on consoles, and even maintain entire franchises on that platform.

The question of whether or not consoles have an impact on the PC gaming industry is answered. The question is why. Why would big studios and so many developers be interested in a platform that is essentially managed by a gatekeeper that forces these companies through restrictive licensing mechanisms that are unthinkable on the PC platform? But even more strange, why are consoles so central to game development that they even tend to serve as the basis for PC porting, and not the other way around? And finally why are consoles so often blessed with earlier releases of multi-platform games, while the PC has to wait?

I'm a software developer by trade. It's been my career for the past 25 years. In fact I've done nothing much else in my life, except for a short period when I tried to own a bookstore and live a more modest and happy life. I however am not a game developer and this makes all the difference. But I can understand the technical challenges and the specificities of software development in general. Gaming is just another type of software development project I can relate to. So my questions started to become answered when Valve, by the voice of Elan Ruskin, gave a talk in the GDC 2008 early that year about the problems associated with cross-platform game development (PDF link) between PC and consoles.

It became readily evident to me, that from a development perspective, it would be just much easier to develop a game for the console and then port it to the PC, than the other way around. The limitations presented by consoles architecture, stringent certification requirements, and the development kits themselves, are too real to be ignored. Starting the game development for the console, or making that the base development arena makes for a much cheaper game cost-wise than the other way around. In fact, the vast majority of the code can be salvaged and ported directly. But the other way around means essentially developing a whole new game. And this I could certainly relate to. Having done code porting before, I fully appreciate the complications that arise from it and how its is always best to develop for the lowest common denominator.

When Valve gave that talk (or rather, when I first learned about it later that year. I didn't attend GDC as it is obvious), my attention to this problem of the consoles impact on PC gaming was immediately shifted. I couldn't understand why I hadn't thought of this before; most of the studios and publishers decisions must be relying on real-world business economics and not on some irrational preference of one thing over the other. So that's where I started looking and reflecting about.

One thing that was readily evident to me was the closed nature of the consoles architecture and how that would benefit me as a software developer. Here I have a computer (let's call it that). I know this computer is the same for all my millions of potential customers. Exact same hardware, exact same OS. There's no difference between this computer in front of me and the computer Josh is using in the small harbor town of Port Pirie, somewhere in South Australia. What this means is that whatever didn't work for my QA team, it wouldn't work for me or Josh. And whatever worked for any of us would work for everyone else. Let me tell you this is developer heaven and any team manager wet dream. Once the software passes all platform Certification requirements (which have been constructed to also help kill most of the usual problems), the costs associated with customer support are greatly, greatly, reduced in a closed platform. You could say, there's just a lot less to do. Any publisher looks at this and immediately suffers a stroke from excitement.

Conversely, on the PC platform, Josh PC happens to be using a different GPU than mine. It's the same of Jane's. But her drives are outdated. Luigi in Italy doesn't understand much about computers and didn't realize his processor can't handle the game I just developed. Meanwhile, someone just found out that SLI causes stutter and my QA team has been nagging me all day about a crash in the inventory system that I can't replicate on my own machine.

So what this means is that console development can be easier and cheaper. Many developers prefer it, despite the obvious limitations to creativity the console platform offer (for more of that subscribe to the PC Gamer beta on steam and watch the interviews section). Publishers count money and see the benefits too. This leaves us with the question, why consoles first and PC later?

I'm guessing you guys should realize by now where this is heading. If in multi-platform development, it is preferable to adopt a console code base, it comes naturally that usually the console version of the game is finished and tested before the PC version was. A good development team will always try to manage the times so they coincide. Often because, despite all that has been said, the PC version can also be a great test bed for the console version. Not just the other way around. But it's just to be expected that the finished console version comes at a time when the QA team is still handling the PC version.

On the other hand, the console version is guaranteed to go gold with minimum customer support requirements (comparable to the pc version). So that's money that can start rolling in. From an accountant perspective this means nothing. But from a financial analyst point of view, anything being held release is money considered lost, not money on hold.

...

Now this doesn't explain all. For sure I've personally been angry at a lot of what I call just plain incompetence and disrespect for PC gamers, who still amount to a sizeable proportion of sales and without whom most game studios and publishers wouldn't be half of what they are today.

But running my own business as I do, I certainly can appreciate the decision making process that goes around and the fact most of these decisions take my financial reports into consideration before anything else.

......

Is this the reason why BF3 DLCs will apparently be released on the console before they are on the PC? I don't know. I think QA teams always have had the last call when it comes to go gold with your product. And QA teams have to handle a lot more with PC ports than with the console ones. So I suspect this to be a likely reason or one that had a big impact on this decision.

Thank you for reading this long.
 

marfig

No ROM battery
Kayden,

I can tell you one thing for sure. If I'm to develop an on-request exclusive to a console platform (and especially if that is about a DLC for a game previously released on the PC platform) make no mistake I would only do that through an agreement involving an hefty sum of money. I don't see how this relates to a decision of releasing a BF3 DLC a few days sooner.

That said, you build a much better case with that link, no doubt. I'd suggest you included that in your article.
 

Superman

Obliviot
Right on my next post on this thread, I will. I'm just making some finishing touches. Sorry for not having done it sooner. But between the moment I started it, after I first read Kayden's article, and now, house chores got in between and my wife wouldn't hear otherwise.

I know you have a life too. But you did say
"I really would love to dispel some of these console vs pc myths." and,
"With all respect, Kayden you need to take a step back and reconsider if it really makes any sense to put up these type of wild conjectures."

The point I was making to you is, don't put some one down even in a clever way unless you can prove it. Yes you did come up with some interesting statements that I was able to shoot down with facts.
So isn't this a situation of a pot calling the kettle black?

Err, nowhere. It's the article attached to this very thread. Did you realize that? The question is, where did I say that? Or what made you think that I actually even came close to mean that? Is it because I reject an unfounded theory that Sony payed DICE money to release on the console first that somehow I'm immediately in favor of consoles?
Again quoting you
"I really would love to dispel some of these console vs pc myths." and,
"With all respect, Kayden you need to take a step back and reconsider if it really makes any sense to put up these type of wild conjectures."
These statements are so broad that it you made it read like you favored consoles.
Kayden made the second point which backed up his opinions.
"Here marfig here is your proof it has happened, and there is nothing to suggest it has stopped. Took me a while to remember what game but it came to me.

http://www.wired.com/gamelife/2007/06/take_two_gets_5/"
So between Kayden and I, we have given you all the information that you will ever need to understand why PC gaming is so much better than a console and, that publishers are not paid or coerced in some way to favor the consoles then you are sadly mistaken. There is proof and small bit has been posted by Kayden. There is lots more, please look into it.


The only advice I can give you marfig is
"If you can't say what you mean, then you can never truly mean what you say." I don't remember where I heard that from or I would give credit to them.

Marfig I have enjoyed this little debate back and forth but it is no longer worth my time to show you what you choose not to see.
So on that note I bid you adieu on this topic.
 
Top