Making a Living Developing Xbox Live Indie Games? Don't Count On It

[Tharic-Nar]

With the mobile game craze seemingly unable to reach a peak, and with Sony, Microsoft and even Valve making it relatively easy for indie developers to publish their games for mass consumption, it might seem like there is no downside to the settling on indie game development as a career choice. But, as it seems, it's not as easy as it looks. Making money, that is.

You can read the rest of our post and discuss here.

 

[marfig]

No doubt Microsoft and Sony can do more to bring Indie games more visibility, recognition and contribute to users interest. Both in their online shop interfaces, but also by enabling game features that are currently only available to AAA titles.

I'm not sure how the Apple Store handles indie game developers (or indie developers in general, for that matter). But I wouldn't be surprised if they were doing a better job. Also, Google online shop has been recently criticized, if memory serves me right, for this problem too.

Overall, I think online shops face a huge problem with indie developers and indie developers with online shops. As a search mechanism, it is very hard for indie games to position themselves considering the large number of games available and the fact they are dependent on user voting mechanism that just doesn't work as one would hope for most cases. On the other hand, an online shop investment on indie gaming may disturb those juicy AAA deals these providers have with publishers.

Indie developers always went to other places to publicize their games. Even Steam is a far cry from what gaming news site (their current most used means for publicity) can do for a indie developer, for instance. On the PC market things have always been as bad as anywhere else. However PCs benefit from not being tied to gatekeepers. And as such, there's online shopping specialized in indie games (and indie games only). Still, it takes the user being a regular to gaming news sites to learn about these games and then go search for them on their PS or Xbox gatekeeper.

This has been working pretty well for them. Games like Minecraft, World of Goo, GridWars, Machinarium (four, I can remember) have sold pretty well. The first two making sure they'd make millionaires of their creators. No special mention of them was made on online shops until their sales skyrocketed (at which point every shop would gladly -- and greedily -- put them upfront). Conversely, many indies -- and this isn't a lie -- aren't really that interested on starting businesses and making millions. A 36,000 USD total earnings for a game that took them an year to complete is in fact celebrated by many as a victory. The money is important, but what they are looking for is the sales report, which usually shows a large number of sales.

And here is the biggest problem; Much of the fault is of the indie developers themselves that through the years locked themselves on a price scheme that is an absolute financial disaster. Games being sold for <10 USD is suicidal, when it took the developer an year of development. Those few that dared cross that line and not listen to the official speech of impeding doom to their sales, ended up proving that a good game can sell for more, and in doing so can afford to sell less but profit more.

The problem with the low price indie games have on the market is that it completely removes out of the picture any indie game that doesn't show high production values (or some novel idea). Because they cannot compete on price (these are already too low), they end up costing the same as a high quality indie game. So users look at these two games and will resist paying $5 for an inferior game, when they payed $5 for a superior game just yesterday... and it doesn't matter that those $5 will be spent on a useless McDonalds burger instead.

Conversely, high quality games cannot separate themselves from the low quality ones in price terms. So every egg is put on the same basket, despite some being cordon bleu farm eggs, and the rest being aviary eggs.

So what is really happening in the indie industry? Let me tell you, games sell great! Very well, in fact. For a john doe in a basement to reach 40, 50, 100k buying customers is -- one has to admit -- impressive. But, because these games sell cheaper than dog poo, earnings are crap. Indie developers have been doing pretty well reaching the gaming market. But they financial ability...

(To be honest I've seen many indie developers complaining of this price scheme. They are not that bad with money. But I don't see many trying to fight this. So they should look at themselves first, before complaining about online shops).

 

[OriginalJoeCool]

I just started studying XNA. I downloaded XNA game studio last night. It makes things easier for individuals or small companies wanting to develop for the PC or XBox360. I'm not expecting to make a living off it. I would like to create a fun, interesting, and immersive game, though. Haven't entirely decided on using XNA yet. I'll hold off on making a decision until I've finished reading the book I just started.

 

[Rob Williams]

I'm not sure how the Apple Store handles indie game developers (or indie developers in general, for that matter). But I wouldn't be surprised if they were doing a better job.

Given that the top content on the App Store is consistently games, many from indie developers just starting out, I'd have to say that's likely to be the case. And look where it has gotten Apple... the App Store turned out to become a major success. And again, it's also proven to be a major success for Valve with its Steam platform.

On the other hand, an online shop investment on indie gaming may disturb those juicy AAA deals these providers have with publishers

Bingo, that does seem to be a major potential bottleneck.

Still, it takes the user being a regular to gaming news sites to learn about these games and then go search for them on their PS or Xbox gatekeeper.

I am not 100% sold on the idea, but it does raise a couple of questions. The fact that Apple's App Store is mind-blowingly popular has to be an indicator of something, and most games there are not titles that people usually read about on gaming sites first. Angry Birds, for example, wasn't really talked about before it become uber-popular. Enough people bought it and enjoyed it to sky-rocket it up the list, and then people really started to take notice.

One major problem for a lot of indie developers is that they A) Don't have the time to do marketing for the game, because it is time-consuming, and B) Don't have the money to do it themselves (entry-level PR effectiveness could start off at $500/mo), so it's a super-tough situation. How are gaming sites going to know about these games?

Minecraft is a bit of an exception. It's not often at all when an indie game catches my attention, but Minecraft did (I was one of the first 10,000 people to purchase the game!), so what did it do right that others did not? I guess one thing is that it was different, and unique. It wasn't backed by a popular developer, but rather a single guy. He struck the correct mixture of what it is gamers would like. Even Notch himself didn't expect this kind of reaction to the game, but for many reasons, it's well-deserved. It's not only a game that sells like hotcakes, but it's a game that needs -no- marketing due to the incredible word of mouth.

For an indie developer, this kind of thing is not easy to replicate, even if you know you have a winner on your hands.

Whew, did I just go on a tangent or what?

I agree with you on almost all points marfig wholeheartedly. I can tell you one thing though, I'm confident it's not only indie game devs that have this sort of battle on their hands, but I am sure other software developers are constantly fighting a similar battle. Though it could be argued that it's much easier to be seen on the Internet than through the clunky Xbox Live interface.

I just started studying XNA. I downloaded XNA game studio last night. It makes things easier for individuals or small companies wanting to develop for the PC or XBox360. I'm not expecting to make a living off it. I would like to create a fun, interesting, and immersive game, though. Haven't entirely decided on using XNA yet. I'll hold off on making a decision until I've finished reading the book I just started.

I have heard mixed reactions about developing through XNA, so I'm interested into your thoughts once you get going.

 

[marfig]

I am not 100% sold on the idea, but it does raise a couple of questions. The fact that Apple's App Store is mind-blowingly popular has to be an indicator of something, and most games there are not titles that people usually read about on gaming sites first.

AppStore is possibly a beast of its own. Mobile app stores for mobile devices in general, may be in fact. This paragraph of yours made a lot of sense to me. It's why I couldn't help avoiding drawing comparisons. "If AppStore is a huge success, which unmistakably it is, why then consoles are being so slow emulate this strategy."

Then it stroke me that AppStore is nothing more than a huge indie playground. Almost everything in there is indie. So it does play in that environment where indie developers pretty much compete with themselves and their positioning can guarantee them a first page... contrary to consoles where even the top selling indie games don't stand a chance.

Angry Birds, for example, wasn't really talked about before it become uber-popular. Enough people bought it and enjoyed it to sky-rocket it up the list, and then people really started to take notice.

Conversely, I remember knowing about the Avatar series in Xbox which sold stupendously well, having placed 3 or 4 of its games in the top selling indie spots of that platform. However, I've never heard of it until I read about these games on the web. It's almost as if the platform actively hides indie games from you. I don't p'lay on the platform myself, but my daughters do and I'm the one doing the purchases for them. Still... never saw these games there... or recall seeing, which is effectively the same thing or worst.

One major problem for a lot of indie developers is that they A) Don't have the time to do marketing for the game, because it is time-consuming, and B) Don't have the money to do it themselves (entry-level PR effectiveness could start off at $500/mo), so it's a super-tough situation. How are gaming sites going to know about these games?

The indie industry isn't so defenseless as it used to be, say some 10 years ago. Awareness has also greatly increased among gamers. Between just-indie coverage websites, indie official consortiums working together to raise awareness of new and past titles, gaming news websites complete adherence to indie games, Steam opening itself up to indie games, and already old and established indie online stores, I'm not inclined to feel particularly worried about the indie industry as I would be back in the late 90s.

But I definitely agree Consoles are still a problem. My feeling however is that there's maybe something about consoles that still isn't allowing them to have that X Factor they often enjoy in the PC. I think a console like the Wii would benefit the most from opening themselves , given its already established position at casual gaming. But Xbox and PS gamers... dunno, I should probably look for some numbers, but would any of us be surprised if an immensely successful indie game on the PC would enjoy poor sales on a console also because gamers of these platform simply do not see Indie games the same way a PC gamer does?

I know I'm going out on a limb there. But the image of my daughters looking at me while I play Defense Grid on the PC and not understanding why am I playing that when whatever latest Final Fantasy version the developers thought of next is so much prettier, can't leave my head. It forces me to think that under most circumstances only the cream of the indie crop has a chance to compete there. If we break down the age groups of both console and PC gamers, maybe we can start to see a glimmer of the problem. And probably come to the conclusion that while the gatekeepers have a responsibility on this matter (no doubt), them's not the entire "fault".

Though it could be argued that it's much easier to be seen on the Internet than through the clunky Xbox Live interface.

Totally agree. Some pressure should be put for that to change. A rise of high quality game ports or, even better, exclusive high quality console games that could slowly contribute for the indie "scene" to establish a foothold on these platforms could help. At some point, companies like Microsoft or Sony can't ignore a sector of their marketplace that could become responsible for something even as small as 1% of their yearly revenue. 1% is a lot.

But I think Tharic hits the nail on the biggest obstacle for this to happen. Until online play and achievements are open to indie developers (I didn't know they weren't), that won't ever happen. Either they are allowed to compete on the gatekeepers marketplace on equal terms, or they won't stand a chance of cutting a slice for themselves. The fact they aren't allowed this actually makes me a bit angry.

 

[Kougar]

I'm not certain, but I'm going to presume that being an Indie dev on the Xbox would have higher licensing costs than say, being on Steam. Indie or not they still have to pay licensing or hosting costs to the distributer, depending on the platform in question.

Part of being an Indie dev for the PC... games like Minecraft and World of Goo were able to promote themselves online without cost. They also controlled their own distribution, which means a small slice of their revenue stayed in their pockets. And I'd like to think being platform agnostic is an advantage too, because no everyone owns a PS3 or 360 or Wii, but everyone does own a computer.

I recall one comment Notch made about never paying a dime for marketing, his game's success was purely the result of word of mouth. Even now when Wolrd of Goo (Or even Angry Birds) can be played on the 360, on a smartphone, can be downloaded from Steam, or downloaded direct from the dev's website... Minecraft is still only available from Notch's site.

I'm sort of rambling, but I guess my point is on the PC there isn't a limitation to marketing. There are only so many places to market on the 360 if you want to get seen or heard, and all of them involve competing against others in a crowded ecosystem and paying Microsoft for that limited space... on the PC, the sky is the limit, there isn't any limitation at all for how, where, or in what fashion to market an Indie title. Steam in particular seems to be a good case in point, they adtertise on the main page, game alerts, websites, and regular events like this Summer Camp theme. Not to mention the crazy sales. But regardless, based that the # of PC users greatly eclipses all the console owners combined, I'd probably still dev on the PC if I was personally creating a game.

I know I'm going out on a limb there. But the image of my daughters looking at me while I play Defense Grid on the PC and not understanding why am I playing that when whatever latest Final Fantasy version the developers thought of next is so much prettier, can't leave my head. It forces me to think that under most circumstances only the cream of the indie crop has a chance to compete there. If we break down the age groups of both console and PC gamers, maybe we can start to see a glimmer of the problem. And probably come to the conclusion that while the gatekeepers have a responsibility on this matter (no doubt), them's not the entire "fault".

I'm not sure I'd read too much into it. Age has a large impact on what draws their interest, and their interests will mature as they grow older. (With any luck )

Games with a specific genre such as a tower defense like Defense Grid (great game, btw!) don't target and won't attract most of the gamers out there regardless. But I'd be willing to bet the 360 doesn't even have a subcategory for tower defense games... Steam does. A friend of mine is addicted to those games, and through steam he's bought and played a great many of them just because Steam neatly categorized them together for people looking for them to find. Speaking of which, I still need to play the Defense Grid Borderlands map and see what that is about.... the Portal 2 maps were a blast.