"Wow" is all that can be said about Linus' latest rant:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/102150693225130002912/posts/1vyfmNCYpi5
https://plus.google.com/u/0/102150693225130002912/posts/1vyfmNCYpi5
Linus blasts openSUSE
- Thread starter Rob Williams
- Start date
OriginalJoeCool
Tech Monkey
I saw that earlier. It's hilarious.
RainMotorsports
Partition Master
Many people make a Drama out of everything. Cant stop just because people start following you 
Personally I think Novell should be drug out into the street and beaten to death over what they did to SUSE. After their dead we should grape em in the mouth! Left me without a freaking update to SUSE for a year until they finally released the first openSUSE.
I believe that was around the same time Mandrake changed their named to Mandriva.... weird days back then haha. Had fun trying to compile Gentoo from scratch on a P4 only to find out I messed up somewhere. Pretty sure it was all fixable.... if the only knowledge i had wasn't a 400 page print out of the compile instructions.
Personally I think Novell should be drug out into the street and beaten to death over what they did to SUSE. After their dead we should grape em in the mouth! Left me without a freaking update to SUSE for a year until they finally released the first openSUSE.
I believe that was around the same time Mandrake changed their named to Mandriva.... weird days back then haha. Had fun trying to compile Gentoo from scratch on a P4 only to find out I messed up somewhere. Pretty sure it was all fixable.... if the only knowledge i had wasn't a 400 page print out of the compile instructions.
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marfig
No ROM battery
He's well know for his ran..., hmm, outspoken manners having been on quite a few flame wars. From Minix and Linux, to C++ and C, along with distros, Linux DEs, revision control systems, GNU, FOSS, etc etc etc
Some of the things he ran.., speaks about, are true. Although less and less I find a reason to agree with him. Seems he just keeps getting angry at the most ridiculous things. Some of which are his own fault (like giving his 14 year old daughter an OpenSuse distro without knowing its features).
I never sympathized with him (must get that bias out in the open), although do respect him for is talents. But as a person he's the type of idiot I expect to see throwing a tantrum on a gaming forum because the game developers didn't care for his bug report. It's just that he is a well known figure that people stand him.
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It's rare when I disagree with Linus, and in the case of openSUSE, he's pulling the words right out of my mouth. The way he rants about it is ridiculous though, and immature. Telling devs to kill themselves for not doing something a certain way? Give me a break.
He sure does know how to stir the pot.
He sure does know how to stir the pot.
Root password for printers, yeah, kind of dumb. Changing time zones? yeah... again kind of dumb... But for a new wireless network, I'm in two minds, that IS a security risk after all, but admittedly a very user-friendly thing to have. When using a laptop, you need to be able to access new networks as you move around, kind of the point of wireless. But if it's a company Laptop, you want to prevent exposure to unsecure networks... I guess it's more of a policy issue than a security issue.
Andy yes, Linus did kind of go OTT there...
Andy yes, Linus did kind of go OTT there...
This is true, but this is a policy that can be implemented by the company for a company laptop. It shouldn't just be assumed that everyone using openSUSE, which is often recommended as a beginner distro, will want to put up with it. You don't need to put in a password to do that in Windows or any mobile device.
marfig
No ROM battery
Hmm.. sort of Thar.
The time and timezone settings are crucial for systems to operate properly. Naturally, on a home user environment this isn't so all the time. It's essentially the same problem of wireless connections that you point out (in my view, correctly).
But OpenSuse (and here I'll take a few steps back from my discussion with Rob last night) is a general purpose distro. It makes sense to add security features that target business environments.
So, what should be done on a general purpose distro?
In my opinion, the setup phase of the installation process should ask the user whether he wants a business, home user or whatever installation. That, or discuss whether sudo shouldn't be a better approach and we could just get rid of those pesky admin passwords.
But when Linus posts to a bugtracker anywhere on the world he expects for his demands to be met. Or you become a moron who should suicide. He doesn't even care to know if this legacy feature of SUSE can be changed in due time, if the developers have the time to deal with it right now, or even -- and this is the main thing -- if he shouldn't be the one posting the patch instead of complaining all the time. Great talent, poor FOSS skills.
The time and timezone settings are crucial for systems to operate properly. Naturally, on a home user environment this isn't so all the time. It's essentially the same problem of wireless connections that you point out (in my view, correctly).
But OpenSuse (and here I'll take a few steps back from my discussion with Rob last night) is a general purpose distro. It makes sense to add security features that target business environments.
So, what should be done on a general purpose distro?
In my opinion, the setup phase of the installation process should ask the user whether he wants a business, home user or whatever installation. That, or discuss whether sudo shouldn't be a better approach and we could just get rid of those pesky admin passwords.
But when Linus posts to a bugtracker anywhere on the world he expects for his demands to be met. Or you become a moron who should suicide. He doesn't even care to know if this legacy feature of SUSE can be changed in due time, if the developers have the time to deal with it right now, or even -- and this is the main thing -- if he shouldn't be the one posting the patch instead of complaining all the time. Great talent, poor FOSS skills.
I agree. openSUSE already has a seriously robust and customizable installer, so something like that shouldn't be too much to ask for.
Indeed, he could very well fix the issue himself if it's such a huge problem.
What I meant by wireless being a policy issue, I meant that the Distro could set it up as no root by default and a policy change for businesses to enable root for network discovery. Hence me saying it's a Policy issue rather than security.
What I meant by wireless being a policy issue, I meant that the Distro could set it up as no root by default and a policy change for businesses to enable root for network discovery. Hence me saying it's a Policy issue rather than security.
RainMotorsports
Partition Master
Well I would think the point is he shouldn't have to. When I was first trying to use Linux on one of my spare machines SUSE was the easiest one I had run into and that's burned into my mind if I am using SUSE i expect things to be easier. Obviously Novell does work from the standpoint of security. I dunno I didn't try everything and I even purposely tried to learn from scratch at some point. But back then plenty of distro's out of the box where not easy to configure every day options and complete certain tasks automatically. SUSE brought these features a windows user expected.
openSUSE is a different product and while it hasn't lost anything I guess if I was beginning now I would have run to Ubunutu/Kubuntu or many other distros that carry the same level of polish.
We all want to see "Linux" or rather one or more GUI equipped distros reach a state of consumer level readyness and acceptance while still maintaining everything a power user can desire out of the box. Even with education this sort of thing will still be held back. We love our software and most people will be stuck on windows. I am a dual boot, VM kind of guy.
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OriginalJoeCool
Tech Monkey
Maybe Linus should just get her to switch to Windows, where this sort of thing just works.
marfig
No ROM battery
Yes, well, I think they should then be focusing on other things instead of distros readiness. Like, oh I dunno, agreeing to a common and standard sound API for Linux for instance?
But no, they prefer to pretend Linux is ready for the masses and its the distros that are ruining it for everyone.
You know what I find rather curious? People keep expecting a distro to be everything to them out of the box. Which is rather confusing because the point of so many distros is exactly because they aren't and can't possibly be. There's a level of adaptation and tweaking that is always required. If people like Linus there want a distro that is everything to them out of the box, they can have it. It's called ArchLinux or Gentoo. But I guess that's too much work, setting a Linux environment for themselves.
RainMotorsports
Partition Master
Getting them to agree on standards of any kind is like trying to reduce the distro count. Good luck.
Since when did Gentoo become the go to for everything out of the box? I thought it was the go to distro for custom, efficient and compiled to order. Of course they have precompiled bianaries available but that was secondary to the main focus years ago.
I would like to be able to put Linux on say my grandparents computer and they be able to use it the moment I walk away. I already did the impossible and got my father using open office. One can hope.
Or back to OS X anyways i mean it is a Mac. I hear that "Distro" does alot of things easy haha.
marfig
No ROM battery
The point is exactly that there is no distro that is everything out of the box. What people want is a distro tailored to their needs. That does what they want, the way they want. Well, that's exactly what distros like Arch, Gentoo and Lunar are for... and to another extent minimalist distros like Slackware or Crux.
People keep expecting a certain service from the wrong type of distro. It's like going to a post office to get an hair trim.
Then going to a bugtracker to get "my kind of linux distro" is a bit silly. What serves me may not serve someone else. Heck, not even Ubuntu managed to get an universal Linux distro that served everyone and their mother. Instead, being Linux what it is, the general consensus has always been getting the least of all evils among the general or beginner-friendly distros, or pull one's sleeves and create our own linux experience.
I dunno. Maybe I just don't see this right anymore. But damn me if I don't remember the early principles of linux distributions. The great advantage of Linux, as an OS, has always been its elasticity; the ability to mold itself into our own desires. That's precisely why there are so many distros. Pick the one that fits better, change what you don't like or humbly request changes. Don't like it? They didn't do what you wanted? Move on to something better.
Won't happen. Can't see that happening with Linux for a few more years. And I'm pretty sure it isn't OpenSUSE changing their security rules for pinters and the Timezone that will make it any easier for your grandparents. It doesn't even make it any more difficult for them. Before they get to that, they have plenty of other headaches.
Setup a nice Arch or Gentoo installation with all they need and with all te features they need. Pack it in a USB pen, go to their place and install it on their machines. Voilá, the perfect distro for your grandparents.