High End (Non-Gaming) PC Build Help

[ohgee]

Hi Folks,

I certainly would appreciate help and suggestions towards building a high end PC. I've previously built one for my son, approx. 1 1/2 yrs. ago, based on then ZDnet's Geo. Ou's Dream PC article, and thoroughly enjoyed doing it.

I now want to build another, for myself, based on up-to-date components. The following are my requirements:

1. I'm not a gamer, but would like a high performance system (something a bit less than for gaming).
2. I want to stick with XP Pro and Ubuntu for now, but eventually change to Vista 32 bit.
3. I'm not an over-clocking maven (my apologies) but am willing to consider a system capable of it, for future fooling around.
4. Since I'm going to hang on to it for quite a while, it need not be budget oriented.
5. A complete components list would be appreciated, including < 250 GB drive, 2 GB RAM, great (but non-screaming) video card, Intel (non-quad) core 2 Duo, CD/DVD burner, 22 inch monitor- you know, the works.

Are there articles out there already addressing this? Your help will certainly be appreciated. Thanks.

 

[Rory Buszka]

Hey there, ohgee. Rory here.

If you're a speed freak, but not interested in gaming, then it makes sense to spend all your money on the CPU and plenty of memory, and cheap out on the video card -- since it seems like the most you'll be wanting to run is Vista's Aero Glass interface.

You mentioned that you were looking for a dual-core CPU, and the very best one that's out there right now is the 3.33GHz Intel Core 2 Duo E8600. It's a 45nm "Wolfdale"-core CPU that fits within a 65-watt thermal envelope, which is nice because you won't need to lug around a chunk of copper to cool it with, nor will you necessarily need to resort to water-cooling.

Your config screams to be built on an Intel P45-based motherboard like the ASUS P5Q Deluxe. If you absolutely need to save money, and don't want or need the expandability to turn your rig into a gaming machine if you decide to later on, then the basic version of the P5Q motherboard should be fine, but we've reviewed the P5Q Deluxe, and it's totally money.

Let's talk RAM now. You'll be running a DDR3 motherboard, so you ought to go with 4 GB of DDR3-1333. OCZ is a brand I trust when it comes to memory, and a 4GB (2x 2GB) kit of their Reaper HTC stuff (with a large heatpipe-equipped heatsink) will run you about $185. In a long tradition of barely-decipherable model numbers, the model number of the kit that I'm recommending here is OCZ3RPR1333C94GK.

For a video card, you won't need much. ASUS' EN9600GT Silent card is a great, reasonably-affordable card that will still give you a nice dose of gaming performance for not too much money ($130). The fanless cooler means you won't need to worry about dust accumulation or bearing failure.

Sprinkle to taste with a big, fast hard drive and a blu-ray burner, and you're set. It's never been easier to build a competent mid-range rig than today, since many of the devices like audio and ethernet are built right into the motherboard these days. Should you find yourself wanting more in the audio department, add an ASUS Xonar DX sound card to the system.

One more comment -- when you go Vista, you really, really should consider running the 64-bit version, so you can address large amounts of memory. You could add another 4GB kit later on, when DDR3 prices are lower, and have a full 8GB at your disposal. I find it a little funny that you said "the works" and "2GB of memory" in the same sentence -- modern realities call for significantly more memory than that.

 

[ohgee]

Hi Rory,

First, let me thank you for your thoughtful reply. In fact, you got me to re-think my original requirements and I think I want to go for a better system than I originally planned.

I like your idea of more memory, the CPU and motherboard.

My new requirements:
1. High resolution photo scanning and Photoshop 7 manipulation.
2. Graphics, especially using the 'Mathematica' application.
3. Investment tracking.
4. Programming (C++).
5. Music recording and manipulation using Audacity.

What I'd like to do is to absorb your suggestions, research some of the items and peripherals, and then to get back to you with more meaningful questions for specifics.

Thanks again, ............ohgee.

 

[ohgee]

Hey Rory,

To come up with a system I first started looking at four of the most likely Intel motherboard chipsets that would suit my purposes. The four were the P45, P35, X48 and X38. The following are my thoughts on each of them, as they relate to my personal needs:

X48 and X38: Both of these support PCI Express 2.0 amongst a lot of other goodies. The X38 has both DDR2 and DDR3, while the X48 has DDR3 only. Both chipsets allow a max. of 8 GB of memory and both are designated for Performance PC's.

P45 and P35: Both of these support DDR3 and DDR2. The P45 supports PCI Express 2.0 while the P35 supports PCI Express x 1. The P45 allows 16 GB memory while the P35 allows 8 GB. Both are designated for Performance and for Mainstream PC's.

As I've noted earlier I'm not a gamer, but am looking for a system close to a Performance PC. I want to hold on to this system for quite a while, with it having the capability for future upgrading and expansion.

In view of the above I have the following thoughts:

1. PCI Express 2.0 is not needed, since it's primarily for video cards requiring the dual slots.
2. 16GB of memory is way out of my league. In fact, so is 8GB. Also, anything greater than 4 GB most likely requires a 64- bit OS, which is not a good idea for me, because of the lack of applications support at present.
3. DDR3 speed tests show they're not much greater than DDR2. I will not be overclocking.
4. As I understand it the next level systems will incorporate the emerging AM3 and LGA1366 interface
technologies. If so, going for an expensive system now seems not a good idea.

As a result of the above, I've eliminated the X48, X38 and P45 from consideration and am concentrating on motherboards incorporating the P35. The question now is, whose and which? I was looking at the ASUS P5K series. However, searching shows that a lot of people are disillusioned with ASUS, mostly having to do with the BIOS, but this might possibly be due to their overclocking, I'm not sure. I will start looking at others, such as Gigabyte, Abit and EVGA.

For now, I want to stick with a 64-bit motherboard and CPU and 32-bits for the OS (WinXP Pro) and apps.

With the motherboard and its chipsets out of the way, the rest of the system will be so much easier to choose.

I apologize for the above lengthy blurb. However, your thoughts and comments on any of the above is much desired and will certainly be appreciated.

Much thanks, ......ohgee.

 

[Kougar]

If I may add to your post Ohgee:

X48 supports both DDR2 and DDR3, it depends on the motherboard manufacturer.

4GB RAM does require a 64bit OS, otherwise you only get roughly 3GB out of it to use.

I agree, if buying high-end then wait until October when Nehalem and its platform launches.

P35 is a good chipset, and is all you need if you only ever plan to run 1 GPU at a time. The only manufacturers I'd suggest are Gigabyte and ASUS... I avoid NVIDIA chipset boards like the plague, but some people highly recommend them. EVGA only sells these... also I suggest avoiding Abit. There's yet another rumor they will be closing up shop, and while they claim they will honor all warranties, if they did close then that means no more driver and BIOS updates.

 

[ohgee]

Cougar,

Thanks for stepping in, and the warning on Abit.

A bit of confusion; Intel, in all of their blurbs, cite X48 as DDR3 only. How do some mobo manufacturers include DDR2 also?

Like they say, don't ever say 'never'. However, I can't see myself ever going to 4GB's. I suppose I'll be going as high as 3GB's for now.

I've homed in on an ASUS P35 mobo. Most of Gigabyte's P35's are overclocked and the rest are Open Boxed, as are some by ASUS. The open boxed ones look great. However, I'm not sure I won't be getting someone elses rejects. What's your opinion?

I'm now also looking at video cards and I'm tending towards the ASUS EN8800GTS 512 (for about $155). However, the new Palit HD4870 ($300) looks fantastic. The way I see it, I'll go for the ASUS and if need be, crossfire it with another in the future. The Palit, I think, is truly for gamers, which I'm not.

So far then, I'm going for:

Motherboard: ASUS P5K Pro
Video Card: ASUS EN8800GTS 512.

Next, I'll be choosing a Core 2 Duo CPU, possible additional cooling, case and PSU.

Your comments on all of the above would be appreciated.

Thanks, ......... ohgee

 

[Kougar]

Intel intended X48 to be DDR3, but because of the expensive nature of DDR3 for no real world performance gain, it made more sense for motherboard makers to design DDR2 boards. Suffice to say if it can support DDR3, it can support DDR2 just as easily.

For example all Gigabyte boards with "X48" are DDR2. All Gigabyte boards with "X48T" are DDR3.

Not sure by what you mean by the motherboards being "overclocked", sounds like ya might be getting confused with the marketing fluff they use to advertise that the motherboard CAN overclock the RAM/FSB? I would not suggest open box products, due to Newegg's TOS you most likely could end up with a naked motherboard and nothing else... and be unable to use it.

The 8800GTS is a NVIDIA card, you can't crossfire it with ATI GPUs. It's like an apple and an orange thing... the 4870 gives great performance, but you would still have better than 8800GTS performance from the 4850 version from ATI which you can also find at that price.

 

[ohgee]

Hey Kougar,

Geez, it looks like one needs a PhD to work out of the morass in putting a compatible system together. You guys certainly provide the essential service for guys like me and for that, I thank you.

Your comments bring up some questions:
1. The P5K Pro supports Crossfire. If I don’t double up on the video card, can I use an NVIDIA card with it? Can any mobo be used if going only with a single NVIDIA or ATI card?
2. I looked at the 4850 and it certainly is the way to go over the 8800GTS. Thanks for the suggestion. Although I’d like to go with the 4870 it’s too powerful for what I need.
BTW: Many people complain that the 4850 gets quite hot. Would I need some extra cooling?
3. The P5K Pro supports PCI Express x16. But the 4850 is supported by PCI-e 2.0 x 16. Is the PCI-e 2.0 backward compatible so that I can use the P5K with the 4850?

The motherboard ‘over-clocking’ question: For example- when I see one available with the following specs:

FSB: 1600(OC)/1333/1066MHz
Memory Standard: DDR2 1200(OC)/1333MHz

What exactly do they mean- that the FSB is capable of being over-clocked to 1600MHz if one chooses , and to 1200 and 1333 for memory? Can a non-overclocked E8400 Core 2 Duo and standard DDR2 memory be used with this motherboard?

See what I mean about needing a PhD? Thanks, ………. ohgee

 

[Merlin]

Hey Kougar,

Geez, it looks like one needs a PhD to work out of the morass in putting a compatible system together. You guys certainly provide the essential service for guys like me and for that, I thank you.

Your comments bring up some questions:
1. The P5K Pro supports Crossfire. If I don’t double up on the video card, can I use an NVIDIA card with it? Can any mobo be used if going only with a single NVIDIA or ATI card?
2. I looked at the 4850 and it certainly is the way to go over the 8800GTS. Thanks for the suggestion. Although I’d like to go with the 4870 it’s too powerful for what I need.
BTW: Many people complain that the 4850 gets quite hot. Would I need some extra cooling?
3. The P5K Pro supports PCI Express x16. But the 4850 is supported by PCI-e 2.0 x 16. Is the PCI-e 2.0 backward compatible so that I can use the P5K with the 4850?

The motherboard ‘over-clocking’ question: For example- when I see one available with the following specs:

FSB: 1600(OC)/1333/1066MHz
Memory Standard: DDR2 1200(OC)/1333MHz

What exactly do they mean- that the FSB is capable of being over-clocked to 1600MHz if one chooses , and to 1200 and 1333 for memory? Can a non-overclocked E8400 Core 2 Duo and standard DDR2 memory be used with this motherboard?

See what I mean about needing a PhD? Thanks, ………. ohgee

I guess we could get a better idea of what your needs are, if not for gaming, then what would you use it for.
I have my E8400 overclocked to 4.0 ghz and FSB to 400 ( 1600 )
It games well, but my other machine I use for video editing, the Q9450 and 4 gig of DDR2 ram...works great.

Merlin

 

[Kougar]

Hey Kougar,

Geez, it looks like one needs a PhD to work out of the morass in putting a compatible system together. You guys certainly provide the essential service for guys like me and for that, I thank you.

Your comments bring up some questions:
1. The P5K Pro supports Crossfire. If I don’t double up on the video card, can I use an NVIDIA card with it? Can any mobo be used if going only with a single NVIDIA or ATI card?

Yes

BTW: Many people complain that the 4850 gets quite hot. Would I need some extra cooling?

They do tend to get hot, but that is because ATI intentionally sets very low fan speeds/ They believe the cards can take it.

You could either modify the fan speeds, or replace the cooler with an aftermarket cooler. To be honest your best bet is to either just buy a 4850 with a non-reference cooler already installed, or change the fan speeds, or not even worry about it.

3. The P5K Pro supports PCI Express x16. But the 4850 is supported by PCI-e 2.0 x 16. Is the PCI-e 2.0 backward compatible so that I can use the P5K with the 4850?

Yes, PCIe is backwards compatible with previous versions. At this point it does not matter, especially for single GPU setups.

capable[/B] of being over-clocked to 1600MHz if one chooses , and to 1200 and 1333 for memory? Can a non-overclocked E8400 Core 2 Duo and standard DDR2 memory be used with this motherboard?

See what I mean about needing a PhD? Thanks, ………. ohgee

Let me put it this way. P35 was not designed nor tested nor certified to work at 1600FSB. So ASUS cannot advertise it as natively supporting 1600FSB processors. However P35 can easily overclock and run any 1600FSB processor out there, and so ASUS advertises it as "1600FSB OC". Gigabyte does the same thing.

If they did not put that "OC" there it could get them into hot water either with Intel (for lying about their chipset specifications) or some sue-happy customer that thought P35 chipsets offered native 1600FSB support and felt he got sold an inferrior product by deceptive advertising.

You don't have to overclock anything, and (unless you tell it to) the board will not overclock anything either. Plenty of users are happy with fully stock systems. I'm just not one of them.

 

[ohgee]

Thanks for responding, guys-

Merlin,
In my Reply #3 I spelled out, in a general way, what I’ll use the system for. I just want to add that I want it to conduct a lot of data handling, using such apps. as Mathematica, Quicken and Excel, all at the same time, with multiple windows coming up fast. I also do high resolution photo scanning ,use Photoshop 7.0 manipulation, and sound recording using Audacity.

Kougar,
I’m feeling more on track now and thank you very much. Your knowledge of what vendors and suppliers do is awesome.

So far, then, is what I think a first cut of the system will look like- certainly not the high performance in you guys’ league, I’m sure:

Motherboard: ASUS or Gigabyte P5K (both for P35 CPU)
CPU: E8400 3.0 GHz
CPU Cooler: Zalman 9500A (if needed)
GPU: Radeon HD 4850
RAM: Corsair DDR2 2x2048 1066MHz, DDR2 1x2048 1066MHz
Case: Antec 900
PSU: Corsair HX 620W
HD: Western Digital 250 GB
Optical Drive: Sony DVD-RW DRU840A
Zip Drive: Iomega Zip 100
Sound Card: ASUS Xonar DX
Voice, Fax: Zoom V.92 PCI Voice Fax Modem
Monitor: Dell Ultrasharp 2007FP 20.1 LCD

I certainly would appreciate any comments and suggestions for specific hardware (vender, model, etc.) for any or all of the above or substitutions of better components.

Questions:
1. I believe the cooler on the GPU may overlap an adjoining PCI slot. Because of the number of other hardware, should I look for a (6) slot mobo instead of (4)?
2. The case does not have any 3 ½ inch external trays. Can 5 ¼ inch trays be revamped to 3 ½ inch? I may need as much as (2) external ones.
3. The GPU has means for direct power connection. Is it required to be used so that the PSU must support it, or is the PCI slot sufficient?
4. Is there a third-party cooler available that can cool both the CPU and the GPU?
5. The Dell monitor is expensive. Is there a somewhat comparable 22-inch monitor which is a better buy?

Much thanks, ……… ohgee

 

[Kougar]

The build looks fine. The only thing I'd suggest is keeping an even number of memory modules... 2 or 4. Three will degrade performance. Considering prices with what they are, ya might as well just get 4GB even if the OS can't use it all.

1) The GPU cooler won't overlap anything

2) Yes, you can find kits on Newegg or your local comp stores to do this

3) You MUST connect all power connectors, that is why they are there.

4) You can buy seperate coolers for each of them.

5) That's a good quality monitor, but if you want a cheaper one just about everyone, including Dell, offers cheaper 20" models. You'd be best viewing them at your local Best Buy, Circuit City, or comp store.

 

[ohgee]

4GB's it is.

I want to thank you for your patience and for all of your help. I say again, it's guys like you that make easier for the rest of us to enjoy putting a complex system together.

I'm looking forward to assembling this build and will post the results in the proper section......... ohgee