Heh, "DRM is so good, we removed it!"

[Rob Williams]

I received a somewhat humorous press release earlier this week that I just had to share, because the message being passed through is so contradictory, and hilarious.

COOPER CITY, Fla. – (November 11, 2008) – The Skins Factory, a global leader in user interface design, has announced their popular Windows XP transformation software product, Hyperdesk is now being distributed completely DRM-free when purchased on The Skins Factory’s Hyperdesk website at www.hyperdesk.com

Hyperdesk has been using an outstanding third-party software solution to handle all license key activations. However, effective immediately, all Hyperdesk themes sold on the Hyperdesk website will be completely DRM-free. No key needed.

Consumers should be aware that DRM-free does not mean “free”. The consumer will still pay to “license” the software and for the right to use it on their personal computers, however they may not distribute the product to a third-party. Consumers who purchase these world-class Windows XP desktop themes will not need to be connected to the internet to activate the software except to download it. The Skins Factory will continue to use the world-class licensing solution for retail products and third-party resellers, but those products will include an installation limit for up to 5 personally owned PCs.​

Sure. So the DRM was outstanding, but now it's no more. That makes a lot of sense. For one thing, I can't believe that this thing included DRM in the first place. It's just a Windows' theme... give me a break. People have to deal with DRM too much as it is nowadays, I am not sure why DRM was ever necessary for a product like this.

Really strange press release regardless. If I was a regular consumer reading that, I wouldn't even know how to take it.

 

[madstork91]

So let me get this straight...

The most common form of piracy these days doesnt require a hard copy of the product. (It is shared by p2p software in most cases)

They have removed the DRM from the non hard copy versions of their products, and left them on the, almost never pirated these days, hard copies. (sold the CD aftermarket or copied from one person to the next in hard format)

... ... ... wtf? Isn't this ass backwards?

 

[Hyperdesk]

So let me get this straight...

You're ridiculing our press release because we state that the DRM solution was outstanding, but now we're not using it? This is how you spend your day?

First of all, its a whole suite of desktop enhancements which amounts to 2 months of work for each theme and about 15-20K dollars in costs. So it's not just a "throwaway" product.

Yes the DRM solution we used is outstanding. It checks over a 100 different points to identify a user's PC. You could rip out the hard drive, put in a new one, reinstall Windows XP and not have to activate the license because it still knew it was you.

So if its so great then why get rid of it? Because no matter how great a DRM solution is, it's still restrictive. We have users who have PCs that aren't connected to the internet and couldn't activate the theme. It's easy to lose your key since we distribute the themes digitally. The reason you would have needed a key would be if you wanted to uninstall it off one PC and put it on a whole new one. It is a good DRM solution but I just don't like DRM in general.

Madstork: Like the press release states, we would use it for retail to control inventory. We need something that tells us that product has been activated so we get credit for the sale. Simple as that.
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[Rob Williams]

Hi Hyperdesk:

I ridiculed the press release because it's confusing, especially to the regular consumer. I mentioned above that "if I was a normal consumer, I wouldn't know how to take it.", and the reason I did was because I did send it to a regular consumer (friend), and he didn't know what point was trying to be pushed across. I'm assuming that the largest customer-base for Hyperdesk is the non-techy crowd, and if that's the case, then chances are good that the majority of your customers don't have a sweet clue what "DRM" even is. The release doesn't explain it, except that it was good, and now it's gone.

The press release should have been a little more clear about why DRM was being removed. After all, if it was so spectacular, why is it being tossed away? If you're removing DRM to better cater to your customer, they should know that. As it stands, the press release doesn't stress that point enough. It simply talks about removing it, even though it was outstanding.

I didn't mean to insinuate that your themes are nothing more than a "throwaway" product. It's just that, to me, I wouldn't expect something like a desktop theme to be packing DRM. I do agree that such a scheme as your previous DRM was robust, but I don't why it needs to be so thorough when a simple serial key and activation scheme could be far easier.

Though I hate DRM and serial keys in general, I do like how Adobe handles their products. If you install on one PC and want to move it to another, you simply deactivate it, then activate it on the secondary PC. Perhaps Hyperdesk could implement something similar. If people are allowed to install on up to five PCs, that would be the limit. The number goes up as they install to more PCs and goes down if they deactivate it on one of the PCs. Seems like a rather straight-forward solution, and one I'm assuming that would be more cost-effective (assuming that the current DRM is not cheap).

That all aside, I know we do have one Hyperdesk user on our forums and he seems to love the software, and I admit, some of the themes do look pretty incredible, so keep up the good work. I hope to see more themes en route and perhaps Vista support in the future as well.

 

[Hyperdesk]

We bullet pointed the reasons in the release why we were getting rid of the DRM solution.

? Unlimited installations on personally owned PCs, however product may not be distributed to others

? No internet connection needed to install Hyperdesk products except for the initial download

I assumed that would have been enough explanation for the consumer. Maybe I'm wrong, I don't know.

You can uninstall the application and it auto-deactivates the key. The problem i see is that unlike a physical product that may have the license key on a sticker, our users right now digitally download it and i'm going to assume will lose their keys down the road.
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[Hyperdesk]

Oh and wait until you see the Star Trek: The Original Series theme. If you're into Star Trek, you'll appreciate how on the money we are with it.
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Kawasaki VN1500T

 

[Merlin]

Oh and wait until you see the Star Trek: The Original Series theme. If you're into Star Trek, you'll appreciate how on the money we are with it.

Just checked out the themes, very nice indeed.
But most users have Vista, such as me on three machines, only my laptop has XP, and its a computer for work.
Let us know when Star Trek comes out

Merlin

 

[madstork91]

So let me get this straight...

You're ridiculing our press release because we state that the DRM solution was outstanding, but now we're not using it? This is how you spend your day?

This is Techgage. A website for technology and software related products and news/reviews. DRM is a hot topic at the moment even among the more than casual computer user. News releases like yours are worthy of discussion not only because of the topic but because of the wording. If you do not appreciate websites like Techgage.com pointing at the oddity of your wording, then you need to either find a new business, or choose your wording more careful.

In short: Yes, this is how some people spend their day. And that doesn't make us (we the people who do this) wrong.

First of all, its a whole suite of desktop enhancements which amounts to 2 months of work for each theme and about 15-20K dollars in costs. So it's not just a "throwaway" product.

I appreciate a product like yours. I just recently re did my entire interface with something similar to your product, and I really like some of your themes! And I can appreciate the cost for some of your themes, and additions. (Some of them are FREE! So check em out guys.)

Now for the part that I am, and widely so, known for.

Foreword to user Hyperdesk: Read the whole post, and try not to become single minded and defensive in any reply.

If Hyperdesk pays $20,000 dollars for some of those themes development, then I would like to apply for that position. Because someone, some place, is making a ****-load of money from your company, and I sure would like in on that. You kidding me? I mean, are you paying that for the wall-E shit for licensing? That I can understand... I mean, you are charging for a product that ultimately uses their shit... BUT WTF? This may be a WTF of the week. May we please have your name so that we can verify that you are a member of the company that is Hyperdesk, and then confirm this complete bullshit? There are communities out there developing twice as much in content and not asking for a single cent in return. And their stuff is quite comparable to your product. (Granted that your product is hopefully more stable...)

WTF? really... What the flying ****?

So if its so great then why get rid of it? Because no matter how great a DRM solution is, it's still restrictive. We have users who have PCs that aren't connected to the internet and couldn't activate the theme. It's easy to lose your key since we distribute the themes digitally. The reason you would have needed a key would be if you wanted to uninstall it off one PC and put it on a whole new one. It is a good DRM solution but I just don't like DRM in general.

For further news related posts concerning DRM, how to address DRM, and how blatantly plain, simple, and truthful your news related items concerning anything should be, please refer to this section of your post.

Madstork: Like the press release states, we would use it for retail to control inventory. We need something that tells us that product has been activated so we get credit for the sale. Simple as that.

You need to control inventory? Not the places of business that sale your product, but you?

When I buy a logitech product, the registration is optional. They know that "someone" has the product because the retail store that sold it, no longer has it.

I am not entirely sure of the mythical and magical system of retail distribution that Hyperdesk utilizes... but DRM is not what should tell you that you got a "credit" for the product. Inventory, sales, and income, should be your best source for that information.

Madstork

My name is madstork91. (note the lower case even in proper use.)
This is to be pronounced/read: mad-stork-nine-one.

For abrv. purposes: Stork91 (still nine-one), or Stork.

It is my name, and not simply an Internet pseudonym, but a name that is as much a part of me as my real name, and is used by people, in conversation with me, in person.

You may do a google search of it.

 

[madstork91]

Double post, I know, but still needed Since this is in a slight bit of retroflexion.

Upon looking further at the themes, some of those really do look amazing. And I could honestly believe that you spent a few thousand in developing them. Not twenty-thousand, but a few thousand.

Also, there is a page one your site, that every time the flash at the top changes... I am auto-scrolled back to the top of it. It is annoying, and reflects poorly upon what a company selling style, and an interface.

I still wouldn't mind putting this through it's paces once I'm done with my current interface.

 

[Hyperdesk]

TouchyBird91 or Stork or Stork91: It's almost 3am so i'll touch on some of what you said..

DarkMatter cost about 20K to build. You have about 5 people working on a theme:

Coder for the widgets and wmp 11 skin (coded 3 separate times since there are 3 flavors so 6 total.)

themer to create all 3 themes, each having 2 themes (dark and alloy) so 6 themes done total

3 different wallpapers

3 icons sets recolored and that's not easy when you see the FX we did.

Coder to put it all into the Hyperdesk installer. So yeah its expensive. Licensing is a whole other story and expense. 20K divided by 5 people averages out to be 4K a piece. It doesn't end up that way, some make more obviously and these prices are lower than normal for commercial work but i think you can see that the work we produce is at a fairly high quality. Quality doesn't come cheap.

Inventory: I was referring to a store like Best Buy or a different "big box" store. If we do cards that have license keys on them then we can make sure that what's being sold by the retailer is what's being activated. It's an easy way to audit sales.

Merlin: Nope. Most users don't have Vista. We get about a little over a million visitors a month between The Skins Factory and Hyperdesk. I use Mint which tracks what OS's people are on. 73% of our users are on XP, while the most i've seen of Vista is about 24%. I read that 1/3 of all Vista users revert back to Windows XP. So the majority is clearly still on XP which is why Microsoft extended the kill date for XP to OEMs once again. Now the date is Jan 2009. It was supposed to be Jan 2008. I know because I spoke to Alienware about it who was a long time client of ours. It then got pushed to Jun 31 2008 and now 2009.
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BMW R3

 

[Hyperdesk]

Oh you're talking about the expanded preview pages. We did that on purpose. The "flash" you're talking about is when the page autoloads to the next large image. The images i do are so tall vertically that if you click a circle on the bottom to see the next image or if it changes you would only see the bottom of the next image. So we force it back up to the top so you can start there on the next image and work your way down. I supposed i could put the time on 60 seconds instead of 30 seconds.
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[madstork91]

Inventory: I was referring to a store like Best Buy or a different "big box" store. If we do cards that have license keys on them then we can make sure that what's being sold by the retailer is what's being activated. It's an easy way to audit sales.

300 boxes in warehouse. Bestbuy orders 150, circuit city orders 50, fry's orders 100.
You now have 0 in your warehouse. They now own the product. You need to keep track of it beyond that?

Oh i get it, You need to make sure that what is being activated was a valid purchase. (because if youre going to be pirated, its going to be a hard copy. I said so in an earlier post. ./sarcasm>)

I understand the want to make sure the customers who are buying it haven't already had their CD key used by another user though. (Assuming that is your intent) And if that is what you mean by audit, I'm all for it. That would actually make your company one, if not -the- only software company that will confirm for a customer that they own it, and will send them a new copy and/or and a CD key for free.

Cause you do that right?

Edit:

There seems to be something about requiring two emails from you guys upon purchasing a product. I tried look look up your policy on replacement, but I'm assuming the info would be in a support section that is linked to in one of those two emails, and I am not in the industrious mood to find it. As it is nearly 4 am (been baking normal maps this evening)

Wouldn't it be easier to on the paying customer to double key it, one key from the package, one key from you based upon an activation code or serial number?

Yes, this can still be cracked... but what cant?

My biggest problem with DRM is the limited number of installs. If I own a copy of a product, why can I only install it a certain number of times?

Oh well. Hope you decided to stick around.

(Did he mock me with that touchybird thing? ... 0.o )

 

[Merlin]

All this protection stuff is making more people aware and cautious of what software they buy.
Going through my games last night, I found Battlefield 2142, I loaded it back up and tried to play single player and it wanted to connect to the EA server, I had to request my user and password from EA just to play anything with the game.
What a headache.
The good ole days when you just put in a CD key and that was it, are over.
It may be way off subject, but SecuRom is a big headache. I bought Far Cry2 only toi find out it plays sometime and sometimes not, I even tried a different DVD opticle drive and still have problems.
It's just a shame honest people have to put up with the crap, because a few want to steal a program.

( getting off soapbox )

Merlin

 

[Hyperdesk]

madstork91: Wrong, wrong, wrong.
You make assumptions you know nothing about. There would be no boxes sitting in warehouses with CDs. We'll be using cards like you get for iTunes. Those cards will need a key. Those cards are not bought by Best Buy, they are given to them free. You do not get credit for the sale until that card is activated at purchase. If we have no key, then we can't audit the sales with the activations of our own keys to make sure the numbers add up. Plus, what would we do with the consumer? Give them just a download url? Then they could take the card back to the store for a refund for whatever reason and still have our product. I need to be able to deactivate a key to stop that. So what's the difference with what we're doing on Hyperdesk? I have control over whether or not to issue a refund. I do not have that control at Best Buy. There is a method to my madness.
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