Digsby Takes Bloatware to an Entirely New Level

[Rob Williams]

From our front-page news:

In the world of Instant Messengers, the competition is rather small, and for the most part, it's split between the official clients, closed or open-source free clients, or paid clients, such as Trillian. In the free, but non-official space, the choice is highly limited. There's Pidgin, which is what I use, but it lacks a lot of functionality of official clients, which is why Digsby, a rather new IM client, immediately drew a legion of supporters.

Though closed-source, Digsby is completely free, and supports a wide-variety of protocols, such as Windows Live, Yahoo!, ICQ, AIM and more. It even goes as far as to integrate e-mail notification support, as well as social networking tools. Overall, it seems like the perfect IM client. Well, at least that may appear to be the case, until you install it.

Up to now, I didn't think that an IM client more bloated than Windows Live Messenger existed, or could even exist (I mean, how much worse could one possibly be?). Well, it appears that Digsby proves that free doesn't always mean free, and their installer and fine-print TOS clear it up fast. The writers at Lifehacker took a look at the latest version of the program, and were so disgusted, that they urge everyone to uninstall and move on.

Just how bad can it be? We're all familiar with quick-trick installers that try to pull a fast one on us in order to get some toolbar installed, or Google products, but believe it or not, Digsby's installer has six such screens, meaning six totally separate pieces of bloat. These are all used to Digsby's advantage, of course, in order to help them make money, and while I am hardly against the idea of making money off of your free application, this is not how to do it.

After hearing so many good things about Digsby, I couldn't wait for a Linux version, but now, I have absolutely no intention of touching it, even if it doesn't include such bloat (it will eventually). It makes you wonder... is the reason the Mac OS X and Linux versions have been in the works for well over a year, simply because this bloatware isn't executable on those OS'?

While there's no way to tell exactly how much money Digsby is making from the sneaky use of your computer and abusing the less knowledgeable with loads of crapware, there is one disturbing fact that you should consider: They are paying up to $1 for every new user that you refer to them through their affiliate program. If they can pay that much money for every new user, they aren't just paying the bills anymore.

Source: Lifehacker​

 

[Kougar]

Is it honestly that hard to uncheck a single box before clicking continue?

I don't know about them, but I'd rather decline six toolbars/bloatware screens than have to tolerate ads in my IM client. If they know of a better way for Digsby to pay the bills then perhaps they should tell the devs, because they are currently asking for ideas and polling their users to see which method is preferred.

As far as using open-source, I went that route first with Pidgin and I regretted it. Pidigin still has client protocol issues, dropped messages, and disconnections. Because of that it's not reliable for international users and I switched to Digsby. As far as Lifehacker's insinuation Digsby throws "news" ads at their users, I have yet to see any...

 

[2Tired2Tango]

As far as using open-source, I went that route first with Pidgin and I regretted it.

I've also had bad experiences with open source software.

Open source == too many chefs in the broth, far as I'm concerned.

 

[Rob Williams]

I don't know about them, but I'd rather decline six toolbars/bloatware screens than have to tolerate ads in my IM client. If they know of a better way for Digsby to pay the bills then perhaps they should tell the devs, because they are currently asking for ideas and polling their users to see which method is preferred.

I doubt it can be argued that six or even two bundled applications could be considered short of ridiculous. I've installed a lot of free applications in my day, and usually some of them include one or two referral-type ads, like Google Desktop, but certainly not six. The reason this bugs me so much is because it preys on unsuspecting computer users who just randomly click yes to everything. It'd sure be nice to know how to persuade users to mindlessly contribute to our site everyday to help drive up our ad revenue like that. Sure could use that about now.

As far as using open-source, I went that route first with Pidgin and I regretted it. Pidigin still has client protocol issues, dropped messages, and disconnections. Because of that it's not reliable for international users and I switched to Digsby. As far as Lifehacker's insinuation Digsby throws "news" ads at their users, I have yet to see any...

I agree, Pidgin sucks, but it's the best "free" client I've personally found. I haven't used Digsby, but I don't run Windows, which is the only reason I haven't so far. I don't really have any issues with chatting, and when I do, it's always with the Windows Live protocol. Even then, for some reason it's always with the exact same people, so I'm not really sure of the story behind it.

It's unfortunate there isn't more choice, though. I recently went to my friends house and saw them using the real Windows Live Messenger client... whew. I almost wanted to break down and cry when I saw that unbelievable mess. And people think Windows is bloated!

 

[Kougar]

Digsby isn't just another IM program. It's a centralized server that requires additional costs, overhead, and lots of bandwidth to operate daily.

I can install Digsby onto any PC and instantly my contact list, settings, and preferences are transferred to the new installation. Every time Digsby is powered on it checks for updates and installs them before connecting to the IM networks. So it's going to have plenty more costs than just downloads, not to mention it's actively developed by several people. It's not volunteer run, or code changes added at random on someone's free time every few months, etc. Updates, new features, and new IM services are being added to the program regularly.

It'd be great if they didn't have to bundle offers with their program (I agree on the principle, but I don't see any alternative), but how else are they going to generate enough support to keep it running? If the user can't stop to read a few sentences of text and uncheck a single box a few times during the install process then I think offer bundles included in Digsby would be the least of their problems.

You've seen the real Messenger Live running... Yahoo, AIM, even ICQ aren't any better. By comparison Digsby looks like a godsend... And unlike Pidgin the protocols actually work.

 

[Rebeca]

I've been using Pidgin for a while, and the protocols do work for me, and I would know since I use almost all of them: AIM, Windows Live, Gtalk, Yahoo, and IRC. I used to have ICQ too, but then I told my ICQ buddies to contact me through my AIM username instead. In addition to those protocols, I've also installed the Facebook and Skype plugins.

If any of the protocols break for some reason, the pidgin team usually releases quick fixes, and in the times in which they don't, I've had no issues finding some workarounds. However, most of the time, I have no issues using any of the protocols. A few disconnections here and there aren't issues for me considering I encounter the same issues in the native clients themselves, and I'm always able to reconnect right away or within a few minutes anyway. Since pidgin works well most of the time for me, then I'd have to say it's just as reliable as the native clients for some of these protocols.

I've found that the reasons behind most pidgin crashes tend to be bad plugins... so I'm always careful when choosing my plugins.

I've tried Digsby, and I haven't seen many advantages to it. Pidgin already alerts me when I get new email messages. The alerts aren't as fancy as the digsby ones, but they fit my needs. In addition, there are plugins that some people may not know about that are quite useful and make pidgin much better.

And now that they're working on voice and video support, pidgin is only bound to get better.

 

[Kougar]

Welcome to the forums Rebeca!

It is theoretically possible it's something odd with my internet connection or hardware, but I'm not making those comments lightly. You mention a good point, perhaps it's an MSN issue more than a client issue, which is certainly possible.

I stuck with Pidgin for almost two years, in fact I was using it when it was still a little program called gAIM. At the time that was also what I primarily used it for, as an alternative for AIM because I greatly preferred having the hard to find HTML logging feature built right into the program. For AIM I never had much of a problem with it.

I first had the disconnect issues myself with MSN and ICQ while using the program. Conversations would disconnect or random messages would drop without any warning at all. Even now that I use Digsby, you can even ask Rob as he and I have had conversations randomly drop messages over MSN and he uses Pidgin. I have the exact same issue with a good friend of mine that prefers MSN and uses Pidgin as well; in the instances where the program does give an automated warning about a possibly missed message it often doesn't give them until as much as 10 or more minutes after they were sent.

It just got to be frustrating, it shouldn't be unreasonable to expect nearly perfect message reception/delivery in this time and age. MSN even routes all messages and file transfers through their own servers which act as an intermediary, so there's no excuse at all for some messages to get lost in transit on their network. I could be carrying on a discussion and everything would seem normal, except that one or two replies I or the other party had sent in the middle of the discussion were never received, yet messages sent only twenty seconds later would be received just fine.

In any case I'm glad to hear that despite the disconnects you are enjoying Pidgin. As you say it's quite similar to Digsby. The only feature I used that Pidgin lacked was video/audio chat support on some IM protocols when I was using it, the feature only worked on one or two of the major IM networks, and it also depended on what IM program the other party was using... at least back when I was using it. Digsby supports both through a 3rd party site which I thought was interesting, since it means it will work in most situations. The only other difference was, as I mentioned above, Digsby can be installed on any system while on the go, and immediately at first start it works exactly like you were using it on your home computer. Settings, defaults, IM list organization all retain their configuration, the only thing not transferred are the logfiles (I assume) for security reasons.

 

[Rob Williams]

in the instances where the program does give an automated warning about a possibly missed message it often doesn't give them until as much as 10 or more minutes after they were sent.

That bugs me a <em>lot</em>... especially when I'm expecting a response faster than 10 minutes!

I blame the MSN protocol wholly for any issues experienced. I've been using Pidgin/Gaim for about four years, and I've ALWAYS had the issue for as long as I can remember. On the other side of the coin, I've <em>never</em> had issues with AIM.

Welcome to the forums Rebeca!

 

[Rebeca]

Thanks for the welcome, Kougar and Rob.

I also used pidgin since back when it was called gaim. -- Kougar, when did you stop using Pidgin? They've released some improvements to the MSN protocol. And I'd also suspect any issues to be on MSN's side, since as he points out, other protocols have always worked much better. -- As far as disconnections in general, I'm use to the infrequent connection problems almost all protocols have, no matter what client I'm using. Don't think I'd have much patience if pidgin always disconnected me. If I stick with it, it's because it has been as reliable as the official clients. At least for me. I'm not claiming everyone else may have had the same experience.

I've tried Digsby. After reading a few glowing reviews a while back, I decided to give it a try, and the first problem I had with it was that it was bloated when compared to pidgin and they didn't have a linux client [and back then, I used linux much more often than windows]. However, the last time I tried Digsby, I noticed it was speedier. They had really polished their product, but I was still largely unimpressed because the fact that it could remember all of my accounts didn't dazzle me. -- For that, I could just as easily use meebo, which also has voice and video through the same provider I believe... isn't it tokbox? And even before I ever tried meebo, I had been a member of tokbox for some time and knew that there were simple web-based alternatives I could link my contacts to (right from pidgin) in case I wanted to voice chat or video chat.

In addition to this, I've been using the portable version of pidgin for some time, and USB pen drives are so cheap now-a-days that anyone could easily do this. That means I have all my information on the go: buddy notes, chat logs, groups, passwords, etc. It may be even safer than storing my information elsewhere. Not that I care about that since I do use meebo and imo.im sometimes.

I'm not saying pidgin is better than digsby though. They're both good clients, much better than the official clients for most protocols, and I'd suggest people choose the client that fits their needs.

If pidgin fits my needs, it's because not only it has never tried to trick me into downloading crapware, but it hasn't disappointed me. When I've had issues in the past, the community has always been ahead of me, making it easy for me to find out solutions. But it's more than that. Before using gaim/pidgin, I had been using trillian... and that was very bloated and I learned then that I wanted something lighter, but also very easy to use. If I had wanted to work on configuring things, I would've chosen Miranda. -- I don't think Pidgin is perfect, but I've gotten family and friends to use it and they're very happy with it. However, I must admit I always preferred using pidgin in linux. In windows, it's not as nicely integrated. But I agree with Rob, to me, pidgin is also the best free client there is... and the plugins I mentioned before do make it easier for me to do quite a few things. For example, I like languages, and thanks to a pidgin plugin, I can easily switch between different language spell checkers. In order to add even more functionality to my IM experience even when I'm not using pidgin, I have a few bots like ping.fm that let me do almost anything through the IM interface. So, in my case, digsby doesn't really give me any advantages.

 

[Kougar]

Rebeca, If I had to guess between 1 and 2 years ago but I can't be entirely sure, it might have even been a little over 2 years.

I remember Pdigin rolled out some majorily needed ICQ protocol updates one time that fixed some serious issues brought on by a change to ICQ's protocol system, but I still had issues with that network as well and not just MSN. If all of these problems were localized to MSN I would just chalk it up to a MSN problem. On the flipside, I never did have any serious issues with AIM, gAIM always did work well with them.

As far as Meebo goes, I don't believe I've tried that one. I tried a bunch including Trillian but that one just didn't suit me. For all the configuration options it still missed a few, and paying for full functionality and continual upgrades didn't suit me. I (briefly) did try Miranda but as you said I wasn't keen on spending forever customizing it into what I wanted, I'd go back to Pidgin first. I can't remember what the video/sound chat provider for Digsby was as I only used it a couple times, sorry. From what you are saying it sounds like there are some solid alternatives to Digsby out there, which is always a good thing!

I'd be pretty offended if Digsby tried to "trick" anyone into installing that bloatware, but they are up front about it during the installation and if people can't be bothered to read a single sentence before clicking next then that's their issue. I certainly was offended to learn the distributed computing project was hidden and enabled by default, so I'm waiting to see if they hold their promise to fix that little issue.

In all honestly Pidgin is good, when testing IM programs to try it was the best so I stuck with it for years. I can't force some of my friends to get AIM though is the problem, even with Digsby I still get disconnection issues over MSN... but ICQ support seems to work normally.

Either way Pidgin is a good, free alternative to Digsby. I just prefer Digsby since they tuned the code/resources it used and fixed some odd issue with the mouse cursor eating CPU time when it was running with the mouse shadow disabled.