Creative EAX vs. ASUS DS3D GX 2.0

U

Unregistered

Guest
Nice work,
But, it would have been interesting to try it also on Vista, because there is also the hardware problem... and if I understood it right, ASUS can wrap EAX on VISTA... no?
 
U

Unregistered

Guest
I would consider a Vista based comparison more useful as it's with this OS that the major sound issues arise.

With XP I was quite happy with an Audigy 1 and the Inspire 5.1 Digital 5700 decoder / amp / speaker kit but on Vista (new build so...) I've ended up with just using the onboard SoundMax HD and 4 channel output for games (DTS / DD via optical for 5.1).

The audio is a huge step backwards - what a load of nonsense this audio HD is, so I'm not really sure what direction to take to try to improve things.

I could just buy the Alchemy software and a Audigy2 ZX (last Audigy to support the 3 channel digital out needed for my amp).

Buy an Auzentech Prelude, add alchemy and use the DD LIve/DTSconnect to output via optical to my amp.

Go with Asus Zonar D2, no alchemy, but accept 4 channel PC game sound (the amp only supports 4 channel analogue in) and wait till a live variant hits the market or Creative use their brain and bring back 3 channel digital out - but I've no idea how the Zonar D2 will work under Vista x64.

I'm loath to get rid of the amp as it works so well - I also have the PS3 connected to it via optical for 5.1 DTS/DD audio and the Wii connected via analogue (swapping with PC) and using the amp's hardware CMSS 3D for 5.1 surround sound.

If I replace it wih a set of 5.1 PC speakers I'd have to find another solution for the PS3 & Wii (all connected to a Dell 2408WFP monitor).

Cheers John
 
U

Unregistered

Guest
Woods.

Did you try in anyway to eliminate or even limit the effects of placebo?
This was done by ear which could have higher risk effects of placebo then taking medicine.

All in all, great article.
 
T

The Unknown

Guest
FPS?

Good work Rory... :)

What i would like to know is how great is the influence of software-based EAX 5 on the Xonar in comparsion with the X-Fi?
U tested on your AMD DC System... perhaps u can make a (very) short test with dualcore and without.
I guess the loss of frames per second whithout the DC will be greater...

Cheers Markus
 

Rory Buszka

Partition Master
Hi, everyone; Rory here again.

First of all, I've already explained why I didn't test under Windows Vista, despite the fact that any issues with the drivers would likely surface in Vista. This article wasn't meant to compare the two cards from different manufacturers on every conceivable point -- rather, the purpose of the article was to determine whether there would be an audible difference between the two DSP systems when everything was working correctly. And, as you've read, I found that even though the Creative card had a slight edge when it came to the quality of its EAX effects, it's unlikely that you'd notice a difference while playing a game, unless you were specifically listening for one.

Regarding the possibility of a placebo effect being present, the duration of a human's auditory memory is about 3 seconds. Beyond that point, it's not possible to remember what something sounded like, unless we apply some objective terms. In testing the cards for this article, I always tested the Xonar first, then the X-Fi second, and took detailed notes of what I was hearing, right when I heard it. Objective terms that can be applied here to describe reverberant effects include audible distortion, multiple perceived decay rates from different sound sources, and clarity of the reverberant effects. So I think it's highly unlikely that a placebo effect existed -- due to the 3-second duration of auditory memory, it was easy to listen to each card with fresh ears and make notes about exactly what I heard.

As for performance impact of one DSP method over another, performance testing is usually reserved for our reviews of individual sound cards. However, given the interest in DSP effects similar to EAX and DS3D GX, it makes sense to include in-game testing in future sound card reviews, including CPU usage logging. Look for this in the upcoming review of the ASUS Xonar DX, which will take place whenever the replacement Xonar DX card arrives from ASUS (since the first sample had an issue.)
 
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D

Dred_furst

Guest
Fatally Flawed

Theres one huge problem with this whole article, after recieving my D2X today and installing under XP, it says several times in the manual you cannot activate the GX 2.0 extensions under XP. Because of this, all of the actual results were using EAX 2.0 not emulated EAX 5.0.
 

Rory Buszka

Partition Master
Hi, Dred_furst and others. Thanks for the interest.

Dred_furst, That's not what I'm reading in my Xonar DX sound card's manual. Here's what my manual reads, in section 6.9 (page 41):

Supports latest DS3D GX 2.0 for gaming on Vista & XP

DS3D GX 2.0 not only revives EAX and DirectSound HW effects, but also allows you to run EAX HD 5.0 games on both XP and Vista. It provides the best compatibility with existing DirectX games. GX2.0 also adds innovative VocalFX voice effects for existing EAX games or VOIP applications.

Then again in the table at the bottom of section 6.9:

DirectSound 3D Game Extensions mode to support EAX and DirectSound 3D Hardware extensions for lots of DirectX/DirectSound3D games on Windows Vista and XP

Since DS3D GX 2.0 is a software driver extension, and not dependent on the hardware being used (and indeed, the AV100 audio processor is actually the same CMI8788 OxygenHD audio chip used for the AV200 on D2 and D2X cards, simply 'binned' at a slightly lower SNR), there is most likely no difference in its functionality with the D2 sound card I used in the review and the DX sound card from which these manual references were taken. Rob and I will contact ASUS to get to the bottom of this issue, but for now we'll let the article stand. If there's indeed a problem, I'll re-test under Vista and revise my conclusions in the article as appropriate.

I feel I should mention that even though I tested under Windows XP, the driver version I installed to enable DS3D GX 2.0 on my Xonar D2 card was labeled "Vista". Even so, I encountered no compatibility issues with Windows XP. ASUS suggested that the reason why I encountered a bit of random noise in Bioshock might have been because I was running an outdated version of the OpenAL engine.
 
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Rory Buszka

Partition Master
Just wanted to follow up quickly.

Our ASUS representative confirmed for us that DS3D GX 2.0 extensions are indeed accessible from within Windows XP, as long as everything is working properly. He provided a screen shot that showed active DS3D GX 2.0 extensions under Windows XP. He went on to state that the printed manual for the Xonar D2X makes no mention about DS3D GX 2.0 -- the revisions concerning DS3D GX 2.0 are contained in the electronic version of the manual.

He suggests that perhaps the old drivers were not properly uninstalled before installing the new ones that support DS3D GX 2.0, and as a result, your ASUS Audio Center control panel may not reflect the additional options. Be sure to uninstall the old driver software for the Xonar D2X (via the Add/Remove Programs control panel in Windows XP) before installing the updated driver. Later revisions of the driver installer will likely address this issue.
 
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U

Unregistered

Guest
Hy all,

I have found this article because I wanted to see the diference between the two sound cards before buying one. It made me think about seeing other reviews before buying any.

The review that I wold like to see from you is about the differences between the two cards when using the OpenAl (in Vista) as I will only use Vista from now on. I think that I'm not the only one in this situation.

One particular game that I am interested to be part of the review is Call of Duty 4.

Thank You.
 
U

Unregistered

Guest
Post edit

P.S.:The two cards that I'm talking about are the D2X and the X-FI.
 

tc93

Obliviot
Sorry for bumping an older thread. But I don't suppose you ever did try using Dolby Headphone with EAX on the Xonar? Or if that is even possible with this card, I don't know.

Also, why didn't you use cmss-3d for the x-fi? I thought that was almost required in order to get positional audio using a headset?

Dolby-Headphone apparently does something similar, only from what I read, its not as accurate for some things. Or it has to guess/assume positional audio, due to it not being programmed into the game itself.

I do currently use Dolby Headphone on my Sondigo Inferno, it sounds good, very clear, but kinda wish the positional audio was a little bit better.
 
U

Unregistered

Guest
Finally! An alternative to Creatives proprietary crap.

After lots of driver trouble under Vista that Creative could not fix since launch(!) I was finally so pissed, that I started to search for an alternative. EAX has always been the issue I used to stick with creative so long.
As I reasearchd I found this. After reading some reviews on the card I was sold! Got my Xonar yesterday and I'm totally satisfied. Awesome sound quality and EAX working flawless for me in every game I tried.
Also tried dolby headphone. I don't made a direct comparison to CMSS 3D but I have to say it is working pretty good. I have no problem telling directions on my headphones at all.

Now I don't need to fight with alchemy. And with the rising popularity of multi core processors, I see absolutly no problem to implement the DSP in software. I even think software DSP's are the way to go because it does not force creative on the users and is in some way more flexible. Crysis had it's own software dsp already to bring it's sound expirience to everyone. I hope that more games will use software dsp's in the future.
 

Rory Buszka

Partition Master
tc93 and others,

Let me state that I didn't enable CMSS-3D when testing the Creative sound card, because it is by no means a 'requirement' to experience EAX effects, and would only add an additional layer of DSP processing to confuse the issue of which effects were added by EAX, and which were simply a result of the CMSS-3D processing. Same goes for Dolby Headphone on the ASUS card -- I didn't want to hear any additional DSP effects except for those that were added by EAX or DS3D GX algorithms. EAX and DS3D GX each should alone be capable of producing environmental reverberation effects through a two-channel playback system, and in my testing, I found that to be the case.
 
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