CPUs nowadays can go much higher than 70°C, but I'd definitely try to keep them around that mark for the sake of not turning your room into an oven.
Building an Affordable "Skulltrail" System
- Thread starter Rob Williams
- Start date
I have managed to solve my heat problem by ripping off my heatsinks pushpins and replace them with a Thermalright LGA-775 Bolt-Thru kit, and it has made one huge difference, my CPU is now running at 45-47C at full load and 39C idle.
I would sincearly reccomend the Thermalright Bolt-Thru for everyone, and it only costed me £4, a cheap but highly cheerful addition to all heatsinks and motherboards (I had to dismantle my machine first to fit the Bolt-Thru on the motherboard because of the backplate)
Screwing the first two spring screws on was a bit fiddly at start, but one the first two are put in, the rest was screwed on easily (It is best to fit them on the first heatsink foot and put the second on the foot that is diagonally opposite the first heatsink foot you put the spring screw on)
Beware that the fan may get slightly in the way of your screwdriver when screwing it in
I would sincearly reccomend the Thermalright Bolt-Thru for everyone, and it only costed me £4, a cheap but highly cheerful addition to all heatsinks and motherboards (I had to dismantle my machine first to fit the Bolt-Thru on the motherboard because of the backplate)
Screwing the first two spring screws on was a bit fiddly at start, but one the first two are put in, the rest was screwed on easily (It is best to fit them on the first heatsink foot and put the second on the foot that is diagonally opposite the first heatsink foot you put the spring screw on)
Beware that the fan may get slightly in the way of your screwdriver when screwing it in
Ahh, it's nice to know that Thermalright sells a kit like that. You are really getting some great temps now... I wish my Skulltrail was so kind.
I'm sure it can fit your Zaleman cooling systems too, my heatsink is not a Thermalright but a Akasa AK-965.
It may say on websites that the Thermalright Bolt-Thru kit is for Thermalright heatsinks only, but the truth is it fits any, buy two, fit it to your skulltrail and see the difference
When I scrape enough money for my second Xeon E5430, I cernanly will be purchasing the Bolt-Thru kit for the second heatsink.
I sereously do not know what possesed Intel designers/engineers to think that cheap plastic pushpins are a great idea instead of metalic bolt-ons, it may change when they introduce the Intel Core i7 on a new socket...
It may say on websites that the Thermalright Bolt-Thru kit is for Thermalright heatsinks only, but the truth is it fits any, buy two, fit it to your skulltrail and see the difference
When I scrape enough money for my second Xeon E5430, I cernanly will be purchasing the Bolt-Thru kit for the second heatsink.
I sereously do not know what possesed Intel designers/engineers to think that cheap plastic pushpins are a great idea instead of metalic bolt-ons, it may change when they introduce the Intel Core i7 on a new socket...
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D
Daybringer
Guest
Gaming Rig
Hello, and absolutely love the article! Best so far!
I, as everyone else would LOVE the Qx9775's but of course am not rich. I currently have just a basic quad-core with 1GB 8800GT video card,8gb RAM..so on and so on. I would be using this more for gaming than anything else. Would the skulltrail and Xeons work well for gaming today. (I know there wont be much increase now, if any?, but will there in a few months?) OR will games even run on it?
I have a full EATX Alienware server case ready to go, but was wondering if xeons were even for gaming. (Sorry never played with xeons) Any help would greatly be appreciated!
Thanks
Daybringer
Hello, and absolutely love the article! Best so far!
I, as everyone else would LOVE the Qx9775's but of course am not rich. I currently have just a basic quad-core with 1GB 8800GT video card,8gb RAM..so on and so on. I would be using this more for gaming than anything else. Would the skulltrail and Xeons work well for gaming today. (I know there wont be much increase now, if any?, but will there in a few months?) OR will games even run on it?
I have a full EATX Alienware server case ready to go, but was wondering if xeons were even for gaming. (Sorry never played with xeons) Any help would greatly be appreciated!
Thanks
Daybringer
Thanks for the compliments Daybringer! Xeon's are the server-equivalent to the desktop processors, so there are virtually no differences in terms of what will run and how well something will run. If you see a Xeon and desktop processor with the same frequency, cache size, FSB frequency and et cetera, you can be sure it's the identical chip... just with a different name.
U
Unregistered
Guest
Workstation emphasis.
Great article. Thanks for the excellent work.
My case may be similar to Robert's in that I just want the computing power. The rig will be sitting in my garage driven via remote desktop from my laptop; no keyboard, no mouse, no speakers, no monitor. The sole use will be for running Windows XP 32 bit software for heavy array calculations (similar to Excel, but capable of using all 8 cores 100% simultaneously).
That being the case, what are the workstation boards that you guys are referring to that might be more suitable? Or, now that the ASUS board is out, would you recommend that instead? I saw some unfavorable reviews (though some say the issues have been addressed with the latest BIOS).
You mentioned the 8800GT for budget minded gamers. What about for people who will never even hook up a monitor? What's the absolute minimum?
Finally, am I correct in assuming that I could just select any eATX "Full Tower" chasis?. Or must it have some particular requirement over and above a bargain basement eATX case?
Sorry for the ignorance. Hardware is not my specialty, though I'm ready and able to learn. Any assistance greatly appreciated.
Mike.
Great article. Thanks for the excellent work.
My case may be similar to Robert's in that I just want the computing power. The rig will be sitting in my garage driven via remote desktop from my laptop; no keyboard, no mouse, no speakers, no monitor. The sole use will be for running Windows XP 32 bit software for heavy array calculations (similar to Excel, but capable of using all 8 cores 100% simultaneously).
That being the case, what are the workstation boards that you guys are referring to that might be more suitable? Or, now that the ASUS board is out, would you recommend that instead? I saw some unfavorable reviews (though some say the issues have been addressed with the latest BIOS).
You mentioned the 8800GT for budget minded gamers. What about for people who will never even hook up a monitor? What's the absolute minimum?
Finally, am I correct in assuming that I could just select any eATX "Full Tower" chasis?. Or must it have some particular requirement over and above a bargain basement eATX case?
Sorry for the ignorance. Hardware is not my specialty, though I'm ready and able to learn. Any assistance greatly appreciated.
Mike.
Hi Mike:
Thanks for the comments
If you have absolutely no use for a graphics card, then getting the cheapest one possible is fine. I'd just recommend getting one that's at least PCI-Express and around the $40 range... so if you choose to move up to Vista later, you can use the basic features while setting it up.
As for the calculations you are doing, the software doesn't support 64-bit?
As for workstation boards, I don't have any recommendations, but the fact of the matter is, any workstation board out there that's dual-socket LGA775 will be able to deliver what you need. You are not using the machine for enthusiast purposes, so any reasonable workstation board out there should be fine. Sadly, I really don't have a recommendation, as it's not an area I'm familiar with. Two brands worth checking out though are SuperMicro and Tyan.
Any chassis that explicitly states support for eATX will work.
Feel free to ask anything if you have more questions, and good luck with the build!
Thanks for the comments
If you have absolutely no use for a graphics card, then getting the cheapest one possible is fine. I'd just recommend getting one that's at least PCI-Express and around the $40 range... so if you choose to move up to Vista later, you can use the basic features while setting it up.
As for the calculations you are doing, the software doesn't support 64-bit?
As for workstation boards, I don't have any recommendations, but the fact of the matter is, any workstation board out there that's dual-socket LGA775 will be able to deliver what you need. You are not using the machine for enthusiast purposes, so any reasonable workstation board out there should be fine. Sadly, I really don't have a recommendation, as it's not an area I'm familiar with. Two brands worth checking out though are SuperMicro and Tyan.
Any chassis that explicitly states support for eATX will work.
Feel free to ask anything if you have more questions, and good luck with the build!
U
Unregistered
Guest
Thanks for the advice.
The software is a platform which performs financial analysis over a data stream, aided by a number of plugins. The platform itself does come in 64 bit, but no data providers offer their data stream using 64 bit API, and very few, if any, of the plugins are native 64 bit. As such, I pretty much have to run the 32 bit version, even if I did upgrade to a 64 bit OS.
Thanks, I'll have a look.
I thought Xeons generally had larger cache than desktops and (with the more recent Xeons) multiprocessing capabilities (I may be wrong), must do some reseach into this...
Nope, generally certain models of Xeons will be identical to models found on the desktop space. There are some Xeons like Dunnington that are unique (and priced accordingly), but that's about it.
This is mostly an issue only with AMD Opterons... some Opterons are built for 2 socket platforms, others 4 and 8 socket platforms... namely the more sockets needed, the more HT links their CPUs need to come with.
This is mostly an issue only with AMD Opterons... some Opterons are built for 2 socket platforms, others 4 and 8 socket platforms... namely the more sockets needed, the more HT links their CPUs need to come with.
TGG Productions
Obliviot
An update on my system:
I think I am upgrading to two GTX 280's
If that still doesn't give me the performance I am looking for I might get a third. Intel supports tri-sli with their new bios update.
I think I am upgrading to two GTX 280's
If that still doesn't give me the performance I am looking for I might get a third. Intel supports tri-sli with their new bios update.
An update on my system:
I think I am upgrading to two GTX 280's
If that still doesn't give me the performance I am looking for I might get a third. Intel supports tri-sli with their new bios update.
Hah. Go figure. All it took was a BIOS update. Funny how they didn't realize that before.
/sarcasm
M
Mike
Guest
Heat Sinks
You might want to have a look at the next generation of one of the coolers suggested in your article. AnandTech found the Thermalright Ultra 120 eXtreme to give their best overclock ever (when combined with a fan):
http://www.anandtech.com/casecooling/showdoc.aspx?i=2981&p=4
Similarly, they found the Zalmans to be only average among their peer group:
http://www.anandtech.com/casecooling/showdoc.aspx?i=2932&p=8
Though, based on Hawke's comments earlier, perhaps the difference really is just in the mounting bracket!
I already bought the whole shopping list of parts (including the Zalmans) and am readying for what will be my first ever build. Not sure yet if I'll return the Zalmans and go for the Ultra eXtremes. The room to hold this machine is not air conditioned. So, any edge in cooling that I can find might be worth the hassle.
Mike
You might want to have a look at the next generation of one of the coolers suggested in your article. AnandTech found the Thermalright Ultra 120 eXtreme to give their best overclock ever (when combined with a fan):
http://www.anandtech.com/casecooling/showdoc.aspx?i=2981&p=4
Similarly, they found the Zalmans to be only average among their peer group:
http://www.anandtech.com/casecooling/showdoc.aspx?i=2932&p=8
Though, based on Hawke's comments earlier, perhaps the difference really is just in the mounting bracket!
I already bought the whole shopping list of parts (including the Zalmans) and am readying for what will be my first ever build. Not sure yet if I'll return the Zalmans and go for the Ultra eXtremes. The room to hold this machine is not air conditioned. So, any edge in cooling that I can find might be worth the hassle.
Mike
Hi Mike:
I chose the Zalman cooler for that article because it's the same model that Intel sent with Skulltrail for our review, so I assumed they liked it for a reason. The Thermalright cooler is better though, I'll admit, and we'll be using the TRUE Black version going forward for both our Core 2 and Core i7 content.
When it comes down to it, if you had to return the Zalman's, I'm not sure it'd be worth the time, but I do know that the Thermalright's seem to be better-respected. Bill here recommends them far above the Zalman's.
I chose the Zalman cooler for that article because it's the same model that Intel sent with Skulltrail for our review, so I assumed they liked it for a reason. The Thermalright cooler is better though, I'll admit, and we'll be using the TRUE Black version going forward for both our Core 2 and Core i7 content.
When it comes down to it, if you had to return the Zalman's, I'm not sure it'd be worth the time, but I do know that the Thermalright's seem to be better-respected. Bill here recommends them far above the Zalman's.
TGG Productions
Obliviot
Hey guys, an update on my system:
My 2 GTX 280's running fine with the 1000W PSU and overclocked E5410's.
One big problem right now is the MCH (Northbridge) overheating. I would be pushing the system for 4-5 hours straight, getting about 60FPS in age of conan (everything very high, 16Q AA, 16x Anisoptric Filtering), and then the framerate starts dropping. Both video cards are at about 55-60C peak, memory is about 50-55C, processors are at about 50-55C, but the MCH (northbridge) gets to about 75C and eventually my computer shuts itself off.
I am thinking this is the main problem, as all other temperatures are quite moderate. I have a fan on the heatsink, but even still touching the heatsink it is extremely hot. What coolers are available to keep this at a reasonable temperature? I have looked around but am not too sure what would be the best solution. Should I put liquid cooling on this? Or would a third party heatsink/fan solve the problem?
How would you go about taking the stock heatsink off the board?
Rob any suggestions?
I have also attached a picture to the thread with the upgrades I made (memory fan, GTX280's)
Thanks!
My 2 GTX 280's running fine with the 1000W PSU and overclocked E5410's.
One big problem right now is the MCH (Northbridge) overheating. I would be pushing the system for 4-5 hours straight, getting about 60FPS in age of conan (everything very high, 16Q AA, 16x Anisoptric Filtering), and then the framerate starts dropping. Both video cards are at about 55-60C peak, memory is about 50-55C, processors are at about 50-55C, but the MCH (northbridge) gets to about 75C and eventually my computer shuts itself off.
I am thinking this is the main problem, as all other temperatures are quite moderate. I have a fan on the heatsink, but even still touching the heatsink it is extremely hot. What coolers are available to keep this at a reasonable temperature? I have looked around but am not too sure what would be the best solution. Should I put liquid cooling on this? Or would a third party heatsink/fan solve the problem?
How would you go about taking the stock heatsink off the board?
Rob any suggestions?
I have also attached a picture to the thread with the upgrades I made (memory fan, GTX280's)
Thanks!
I don't have the links handly but I've seen someone post images on removing the southbridge cooler.
I don't presently recall any typical aircooled blocks for the NB for that board. I do know someone was designing custom blocks to cool the chipset... other blocks and info can be found at http://www.xtremesystems.org/FORUMS/showthread.php?t=194108
Edit: Hah, I found the link. http://forums.overclockers.com.au/showthread.php?t=714778 Check out THAT Skulltrail build... blocks and all.
I don't presently recall any typical aircooled blocks for the NB for that board. I do know someone was designing custom blocks to cool the chipset... other blocks and info can be found at http://www.xtremesystems.org/FORUMS/showthread.php?t=194108
Edit: Hah, I found the link. http://forums.overclockers.com.au/showthread.php?t=714778 Check out THAT Skulltrail build... blocks and all.
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Intel's chipsets are getting ridiculous... 75°C is unacceptable. Better cooling is almost required for pushing that much power though, I guess, but even still. You are not doing anything out of the ordinary, except overclocking the CPU... I can't understand why the chipset can get THAT hot.
I wish I had an immediate recommendation, but I really don't. I can't even see a simple chipset fan upgrade helping THAT much. The only thing I can think of right now would be to turn the CPU coolers so that the fans blow air towards the back, rather than up through the top. That might increase the airflow over the northbridge a little bit.
If I have other ideas, I'll let you know. That has got to be a frustrating issue, to say the least.
Dude... my jaw dropped. What an incredible build!
I wish I had an immediate recommendation, but I really don't. I can't even see a simple chipset fan upgrade helping THAT much. The only thing I can think of right now would be to turn the CPU coolers so that the fans blow air towards the back, rather than up through the top. That might increase the airflow over the northbridge a little bit.
If I have other ideas, I'll let you know. That has got to be a frustrating issue, to say the least.
Dude... my jaw dropped. What an incredible build!
M
Mike
Guest
FB-DIMM Heat Spreaders
Has anyone tried the over-clockable FB-DIMMs with heat spreaders? http://www.theinquirer.net/gb/inquirer/news/2008/05/30/first-inqpressions-kingston
I also read that Intel recommends using all 4 slots for best performance (bandwidth?). But, elsewhere I read that that leads to higher latency. Perhaps all 4 slots filled with the over-clockable (and lower latency) FB-DIMMs would be the best of both worlds. Just in case, I just placed my order for 4x1GB of the over-clockable ones, meaning I'll be selling my 2x2GB. I know, I know, I've got rookie written all over me
Mike
Has anyone tried the over-clockable FB-DIMMs with heat spreaders? http://www.theinquirer.net/gb/inquirer/news/2008/05/30/first-inqpressions-kingston
I also read that Intel recommends using all 4 slots for best performance (bandwidth?). But, elsewhere I read that that leads to higher latency. Perhaps all 4 slots filled with the over-clockable (and lower latency) FB-DIMMs would be the best of both worlds. Just in case, I just placed my order for 4x1GB of the over-clockable ones, meaning I'll be selling my 2x2GB. I know, I know, I've got rookie written all over me
Mike
I admit I'm not much of an overclocker to begin with (I just overclock the CPU and be done with it), but I wouldn't be too concerned with latency when using four modules. It does increase it a bit, but I'd be hard-pressed to find someone who'd notice it in real-world scenarios.
The best thing would be to just use 2x2GB, but if you need 8GB, the latency hit is going to be moot.
The best thing would be to just use 2x2GB, but if you need 8GB, the latency hit is going to be moot.