Gas Prices
- Thread starter maddmaxx
- Start date
Buck-O
Coastermaker
Orbit said:
Absolutely.
The biggest reason why no one wants to really take ont eh oil companies, is the same reason no one in government really wanted to take on teh big tabacco companies.
Its an issue of letting to many things run unchecked, for their own perspnal benefit, that when they do become a reall issue, theres nothing you can do about it, but sit back and pretend like you never saw it coming. And make excuses, and pass the buck to the other guy about why its happening now.
That is an issue which crosses all party lines, all religious groups, all races, and sexes. Though im sure every liberal left of center will automaticly blame Bush for being a part of big oil. But honestly, i think hes gotten jsut as fed up with this whole deal as anyone else. Just the same as anyone in his possision would. And i doubt anyone else in his possision would have done any differnt to prevent it from happening, or turn the tides. WHo knows, maybe being a former oil guy will help him to correct some of the issue.
Either way, the biggest issue right now, is to many people pointing both ways at once.
WE NEED MORE OIL! - But we dont have the capasity to store it becuase we havent allowed for more on-shore oil holding facilities, becuase of rediculas environmental laws.
WE NEED MORE REFINERIES! - But we passed legislation putting zoning restrictions on refinery building that are so rediculas, there is literally no more room to put any.
WE WANT CLEANER BURNING FUELS! - So we force teh petrol refineries to modify for MTBE, becuase its safer for the environment, but its actually worse for the environment, becuase we're idiots and wont admit it, so actually we need to switch back to ethenol, but that costs even more moeny which the consumer gets to pay for....but, really, its for the environment, so more expence is ok, even though we want cheaper, and more of it.
Its a rediculas game of political hog wash, mixed with market control, coupled with downright greedy bastards.
I think teh one thing that need to be stated about the Oil situation more then anything, is that we as consumer have no say, and no voice in the price of the fuel. For some reason, people seem to think that we do. And the truth is, we dont.
Take OPEC for instance...the C in OPEC, stands for CARTEL. Meaning, they control teh market, they control the demand, they control the price. And we have to live with it.
When your dealing with the Oil Cartel as a whole, there is nothing the consumers of the world, or governments of the world, can do to prevent it. (unless of course your country provides safe harbour for criminals, terrorists, and illeagle drug trade to fund large militias, then your gas is 20¢ a gallon)
They did, futures dropped 8 cents a gallon for June delivery, however that only means that it won't go up quite as much by June, Unless something bad happens (like war in the middle east.. oops! got that, or rising tensions with Iran, Sudan, or Venezuela.... uh oh! or a predicted severe hurricane season......Oh Crap!)DarkSynergy said:
The problem with Bush's new plan is it's too little too late.
He fought and killed raising CAFE (fuel efficiency standards )
he resisted alternate fuels legislation (increasing alcohol content in gas.
gave the oil companies BIG tax incentive for future exploration and drilling
He avoided earlier attempts to investigate the oil companies
and continues to agitate the oil producing countries
Stopping the filling of the strategic reserve give a minor price relief (if any, if we see it)at a time when we should have it filled (we might need it soon
)Had the CAFE standards remained in effect the overall fleet(all vehicles in the US) efficiency would have risen 1+MPG by now (doesn't sound like much but is 4-5%, ie maybe 15+ cents a gallon less at current prices, maybe alot more given the difference between a oil glut and a shortage is only 5-10% historically )
not requiring the replacement of MBTE with alcohol might avoid a few days of spot shortages, but harms both the environment, and possibly the health of many more people, and in addition adding 10-15% alcohol would actually increase the volume of fuel available.
Now he wants to take away the tax free status of oil/natural gas production previously given to stimulate exploration and drilling during the last Oil crisis.
and now he wants to investigate big oil, well into the second or third year of record prices and profits.
The very things he pushed so hard in the early part of his first term have come back to haunt (and hurt) us all.
If price would only drop as fast as his popularity........
political rant off, whats done is done.
neither the president nor congress can change the current price/supply problem in the short term.
BUT you can
tune your car, keep the tires inflated, avoid extra trips, carpool or take the bus when possible, plan your trips to do everything at once, drive conservatively, etc'etc
If every vehicle in the US saved/used 1 less gallon per week (not that hard if you really try)
thats 200,000,000 'extra' gallons available per week. in just a few weeks the shortage becomes a glut, storage tanks are full and the price begins to drop and as long as people don't return to full usage (say we keep saving 1/2 a gallon each = 100,000,000 gal. total) the price keeps going down. people who rant about the price of gas, national security, the war on terror, the economy, the debt, the trade deficit, etc, should stop and think about this all of those are tied to this simple action.
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fussnfeathers
E.M.I.
1 gallon per week per car is unrealistic. Sure, if you live in a major metropolitan area, and live 2-3 miles from work, but those of us in outlying and rural areas might need to drive 30+ miles to our jobs. Even with the current breed of hybrid cars, that translates to 4-5 gallons a week, at 50mpg. And with the current craze of owning the biggest SUV in the world, with an average MPG of less than 15mpg at best, this will never happen.
Personally, I detest people who go out and buy an Expedition or some such, when they're a single person, and don't bother to try to carpool. Screw you, swallow your ego and buy a fuel-efficient car. However, you can't say that to a family that has four kids and needs a large car, or a construction worker who needs a biggish truck to haul his tools, or school systems who need buses to get the kids to school.
(on the school note, it really irritates me to be behind a school bus that stops literally every 100 feet to pick up kids. When I was growing up, we walked a half-mile or so, at least a few blocks, to a central pick-up location. Stop-and-start driving uses ALOT more gas, and in a school bus, that's multiplied in spades)
You're right, though. The US has absolutely NO control over the cost of oil, since it is all imported from outside sources. We pay what the seller asks, and, unfortunately, we're aggravating the very sources of the oil we need......so we pay higher costs.
Fortunately, I got a job closer to home, so in the event of a shortage or price hike, I can take the bus, carpool, or even ride my bike to work...........which really isn't an option, I have two herniated disks in my back, but I'll do it if I have to.
I should note, unlike probably many of the members here, I went through the gas shortage in the 70's. Keep your head, plan your trips wisely, cut your driving time down as much as possible. While it might seem like a pain, shopping for food once a week takes far less gas than shopping a few times a week, or more, just in the few miles that you have to go out of your way. And, in the long run, you get home earlier and relax more, more days per week. It benefits you mentally and physically, as well as financially.
Personally, I detest people who go out and buy an Expedition or some such, when they're a single person, and don't bother to try to carpool. Screw you, swallow your ego and buy a fuel-efficient car. However, you can't say that to a family that has four kids and needs a large car, or a construction worker who needs a biggish truck to haul his tools, or school systems who need buses to get the kids to school.
(on the school note, it really irritates me to be behind a school bus that stops literally every 100 feet to pick up kids. When I was growing up, we walked a half-mile or so, at least a few blocks, to a central pick-up location. Stop-and-start driving uses ALOT more gas, and in a school bus, that's multiplied in spades)
You're right, though. The US has absolutely NO control over the cost of oil, since it is all imported from outside sources. We pay what the seller asks, and, unfortunately, we're aggravating the very sources of the oil we need......so we pay higher costs.
Fortunately, I got a job closer to home, so in the event of a shortage or price hike, I can take the bus, carpool, or even ride my bike to work...........which really isn't an option, I have two herniated disks in my back, but I'll do it if I have to.
I should note, unlike probably many of the members here, I went through the gas shortage in the 70's. Keep your head, plan your trips wisely, cut your driving time down as much as possible. While it might seem like a pain, shopping for food once a week takes far less gas than shopping a few times a week, or more, just in the few miles that you have to go out of your way. And, in the long run, you get home earlier and relax more, more days per week. It benefits you mentally and physically, as well as financially.
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I'm not saying you only get 1 gallon of fuel, I'm saying SAVE 1 gallon of fuel (on average , some people can save more) the longer your comute and the lower your MPG the easier it is.fussnfeathers said:
i.e. 30miles x 2(round trip) x 5 days a week = 300 miles
if you only get 12 MPG then if by tuneup or careful driving/planning you can cut out 12 miles (stop at store on the way home, to avoid an extra trip, maybe meet some one part way to work and ride together 1 day a week for the last 15 miles,etc) you have saved your gallon, the hybrid owner getting 50mpg with a 3 mile comute will not be able to avoid 50 miles to save their gallon, but they already are using much less.
The bus thing doesn't bother me, it's not safe for kids to walk/wait alone in many areas. the problem is the people who race up behind the bus, let it get ahead, and then race up again.
Adjusting your trip 5 minutes either way avoids being stuck behind the bus everyday. and then there are the "soccer moms, who race to school in the big SUV, then idle in line for 10-15 minutes almost everyday to take 1-2 kids to other activities, when a small car would do, or they could turn off the engine for even a few minutes (makes a big difference in those mega gas burners)
None of this will be easy or fun, but it is what we must do to break the control of the oil co.
and think about the BILLIONS of dollars we send to the middle east (and elsewhere) each year, to people/governments we oterwise (apparently) do not trust.
Before Bush's gunboat diplomacy efforts much of that money returned to the united states for the purchase of goods and services, startup small businesses, and for collage tution and housing (many times spending generously for 6-7 years to get a 4 year degree.)
Now arabs do not feel as safe or welcome here, and while they still want our high quality eductions, they push to finish in 3 years.
Dubai is setting up branch campus's of major US universities and even china is taking more of their students.
The shine has also worn off many US products, with more of their business/purchases going to europe, russia and china.
so now our hugh oil budget is going out to support other countries.
in the mean time our trade defict grows to incredible amounts, while our product prices(to outside buyers) are reduced in order to compete.
Gas Too Pricey? Make Your Own
You could be forgiven for not expecting the next John D. Rockefeller to come from Tullahoma, Tenn., of all places. But right in Tullahoma, in his garage-turned-factory, you can find Bill Sasher — the father of do-it-yourself ethanol.
Doing it yourself means buying one of Sasher's stills or still-building kits. A fully assembled ethanol kit still costs about $1,400, and Sasher, who runs Dogwood Energy, says with the price of gasoline nudging toward $3 a gallon, business is booming. In the last two months, orders are up 300 percent.
Basically, you would add your home-made ethanol to your regular gasoline.. a 15/85 mixture. So.. in affect this should save you 15% at the pump. But this kit sells for $1,400 and requires time and effort. I am not sure what would be better to be honest, but this is a very cool alternative.
Oh, and you can make moonshine with the kit also
http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/Business/story?id=1902339&page=1
You could be forgiven for not expecting the next John D. Rockefeller to come from Tullahoma, Tenn., of all places. But right in Tullahoma, in his garage-turned-factory, you can find Bill Sasher — the father of do-it-yourself ethanol.
Doing it yourself means buying one of Sasher's stills or still-building kits. A fully assembled ethanol kit still costs about $1,400, and Sasher, who runs Dogwood Energy, says with the price of gasoline nudging toward $3 a gallon, business is booming. In the last two months, orders are up 300 percent.
Basically, you would add your home-made ethanol to your regular gasoline.. a 15/85 mixture. So.. in affect this should save you 15% at the pump. But this kit sells for $1,400 and requires time and effort. I am not sure what would be better to be honest, but this is a very cool alternative.
Oh, and you can make moonshine with the kit also
http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/Business/story?id=1902339&page=1
the problem being, like home bio-diesel kits, when too many people start doing it the raw material gets hard to find (waste fry oil for bio-diesel, any cheap sugar source for ethanol) and the price begins to rise.Rob Williams said:Basically, you would add your home-made ethanol to your regular gasoline.. a 15/85 mixture. So.. in affect this should save you 15% at the pump. But this kit sells for $1,400 and requires time and effort. I am not sure what would be better to be honest, but this is a very cool alternative.
Oh, and you can make moonshine with the kit also
http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/Business/story?id=1902339&page=1
At least for ethanol the money you pay for supplies goes to some US (or Canadian) farmer.
here in Washington the bio-diesel industry got a big push from the state last year, with a few side effects.
1) the port of Seattle arranged to have ships in Puget sound burn bio-diesel in their while in port (ships are 1 of the biggest pollution sources as they burn huge amounts of bunker oil (very dirty, almost crude oil) you can actually see their exhaust plumes on satellite photos) and pledged to use more than 1 million gallons a year. However this dried up the local sources of waste oil as a few big contractor will actually pay (a small amount) to get the oil to refine and sell to the port, too bad for the little guy (and there have been a few complaints about the "fried food" smell around/downwind from the port)
2) In order to encourage the use of BD in construction vehicles, the laws about cleanup of small fuel spills (very common from dump trucks and heavy equipment fueling at job sites) are very relaxed for users of BD, but this just means that some companies with bad cleanup records/safety practices switched and are now not even pretending to be careful (a BD spill MIGHT be less dangerous then regular diesel, but it is still oil)
3)A company in eastern Washington setup a HUGE BD refinery which the state is now trying to shutdown because the owner (a real scumbag) decide that it was legit to dump the lye/waste water? and waste oil (the part too full of little burnt food bits) in to a big dry well which is now polluting the local ground water.
There already are several large ethanol plants in eastern Washington (which use the sugar beets grown there).
BUT there have already been several massive tank car fires on the railroad in several areas of the state. (alcohol being MORE volatile than gas or oil, and only transported on the surface rather than (some what )safer underground pipelines.
Bobbythecat
E.M.I.
Much of America now is built with the assumption that fuel was abundant, and that people can commute. Of course, it's The gas company, Standard Oil, and the auto industry, early 20th century, that got most cities to say bye bye to trains. Now some have subways, but only a few remain from that time, like the one in San Francisco. Much public spending went into building and maintaining roads, and "city" planning (by "city" I refer to suburb development) where people are away from various nuisances and protected by servitudes and zoning to keep nuisances away. Many people, by necessity, use a lot of fuel. Ultimately, it's bad strategic planning. The Oil Shock of the 70's got former Pres. Carter to attempt at preparing for problems as "necessary" fuel use, but nothing as grand as improving city planning.
However, gas prices increasing is a great thing in my mind. This planet is heading south as we bicker over prices. Industry and economy may be at stake, but they are also based on what may be characterized as the worship of economic growth and consumption. Cancer is a growth of cells without end that ultimately kills the collective. The economy growing was a great thing while resources were abundant and the world seemed boundless. But the planet could take so much shit from us. And we cannot exploit it at the rate we are. The fisheries once rich with life, many now barren, are accompanied by its own economic impact on its own scale, for example. Much has been done to harm our collective long-term interest. There are too many people, too much investment into unsustainable economy, and the haves and have-nots of the world fuel the train ceaselessly until they wreck. We face the wreck of time.
Not enough said, but this will have to do.
Gas is 3.17 per gallon for regular stuff at the pricy station, 3.10 at others here in Sacramento, CA.
However, gas prices increasing is a great thing in my mind. This planet is heading south as we bicker over prices. Industry and economy may be at stake, but they are also based on what may be characterized as the worship of economic growth and consumption. Cancer is a growth of cells without end that ultimately kills the collective. The economy growing was a great thing while resources were abundant and the world seemed boundless. But the planet could take so much shit from us. And we cannot exploit it at the rate we are. The fisheries once rich with life, many now barren, are accompanied by its own economic impact on its own scale, for example. Much has been done to harm our collective long-term interest. There are too many people, too much investment into unsustainable economy, and the haves and have-nots of the world fuel the train ceaselessly until they wreck. We face the wreck of time.
Not enough said, but this will have to do.
Gas is 3.17 per gallon for regular stuff at the pricy station, 3.10 at others here in Sacramento, CA.
Buck-O
Coastermaker
T-Shirt said:
Yes, the push for BD in this state is preaty rediculas. I still honestly belive in Diesel 100%, i find it to be a far better alternative then regular gasoline, and far better overall then hybrids for initial cost, and cost over time.
But, even though containter ships do have higher polution ratings then other singular vehicles, the truth is, it can move more tonnage, for fuel spent, then any other vehicle on earth. No semi, train, or aitcraft, can math its efficiency per ton ratio. The amount of exausr fumes doesnt prove the whole story. As hybrids have to easily proven.
The fuel cleanup law is complete garbage. And i belive there is a measure to get it ammended. However, its difficult, as alot of the repete offenders are major uninion contractors. ANd the Union funds alot of the representatives in this state, obviously, as we are majority democrat here. And as such, no one really wants to put any sort of real push on making the change to the law.
And it should be noted, even though its no better, but for accuracys sake, that the waste oil material that was being dumped, was mostly dirty glycerin. Not dirty oil. They are quite different substances. Though, as i said, just as dirty in terms of environmental impact.
Buck-O said:
My point was that deliberate dumping of waste product, was not the purpose of a well intention, but incomplete (in hindsight) law that saw the cost of small spills was hampering businesses and that vegetable oil is probably less dangerous then regular diesel in small amounts, and that promoting reuse was generally a good idea.
It's more a matter of each person taking resonsiblity for their burden on the enviroment, some will always find a way to abuse any law, for their own benifit, irregardless of the cost to others, that's why we end up with so many laws (and massive govt, to check and enforce them).
Also no doubt ships are a effiecent transport mode, but they do carry their own hazards (air pollution, contaminated bilge water,including the accidental importation of non-native/invasive marine (and land) life. The port was making a step in the right direction, but it did have an undesirable effect on the early adopters/do it yourself biodiesel groups in the area.
I'm just not sure investing in a DYI ethenol setup couldn't end up being equally efectted by the massive comerialization of that industry.
Also I'm not sure I want my neighbors being allowed to run makeshift stills or storeing large quanities of alcohol.
leecho7
Partition Master
I think we, as the consumers, are gonna get it rough in the upcoming years. Oil is a huge foundation in our societies. We have an infrastructure that took us about a century to develop. It's going to cost us a lot of time, effort, and money to make a transition from crude oil to an alternative fuel.
In the US, gas prices are going up but the demand hasn't decreased at all, in fact it's rising.
In the US, gas prices are going up but the demand hasn't decreased at all, in fact it's rising.
Buck-O
Coastermaker
With all of the oil companies being forced to switch back over to ethonal, i would agree with you completely, that the DIY distilers will probibly, again, get the short end of the stick. Given that most of the ethonal crop load isnt there anymore.
Which kind of brings us to a nother problem of big government (though in a way we cant really complain about it, becuase we all asked for it to begin with), all of that ethonal crop that was removed from EMTB, was being subsidised, the sibsidies are still there, the crops are smaller, and the demand is higher. Its a total catch 22, and i dont think many farmers are going to want to go to the expence of reconfiguring their crops, with all the money they are getting through subsidy instead. Its really a big steaming pile all over.
Which kind of brings us to a nother problem of big government (though in a way we cant really complain about it, becuase we all asked for it to begin with), all of that ethonal crop that was removed from EMTB, was being subsidised, the sibsidies are still there, the crops are smaller, and the demand is higher. Its a total catch 22, and i dont think many farmers are going to want to go to the expence of reconfiguring their crops, with all the money they are getting through subsidy instead. Its really a big steaming pile all over.
T-Shirt said:
actually ethanol is less volitile than gasoline!! and 94 octane is less volitile than 87 octane this is why some cars must run high octane fuels because 87 octane can cause detonation (exploding before ingnition) in high performance motors,
however ethanol if not treated in pure form burns so clean you cannot see it!
1) there is alot of e85 stations poping up in the midwest and starting to spread!
2) the us makes almost all of the ethanol it uses!!
3) the only place that comes close to making as much ethanol as the us is brazil
http://www.ethanolrfa.org/industry/statistics/
4) they can send ethanol through the pipelines but choose not to because ethanol is more corrosive and it would pick up any dirt in the pipes and ethanol can suck water up like crazy!! so before they use a pipline for ethanol they have to clean it very well
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It's getting worse.
Bolivia nationalizes it's Nat. Gas industry
you'd think, given the Bolivia is landlock and only can sell to it's neighbors, primarily Brazil, should mean shortage in Brazil no effect on the world energy market (everyone agrees the Bolivia no longer has the skills or resources to run and develop the gas reserves without the outside help, and the oil companies, despite investing more than $5Billion in the last 10 years will abandon it's investment rather that run it and turn over ALL the profits to the bolivian gov't)
however Brazil NEEDS the Nat. Gas to fend off the staggering inflation of the last 15-20 years, so they will by LPG deliveries (by ship) at whatever price the market demands.
so LPG (a large portion of industrial and home heating for the new england area, down the east coast middle america (via pipeline from the gulf of mexico)) and S califorina will rise or be unavailable (because all available LPG ships already are 100% booked), so demand for other fuel will rise, etc, etc
this will be a tough summer, gas wise and could be a MUCH tougher winter.
on the gasoline front the cheapest gas station around here Arco (which already adds 10-12% alcohol (almost free) to it's fuel (federal subide program, no longer available) at the cheapest station I know of has $3.21- $3.11-$3.01 posted tonight)
This areas gas is only produced from Alaska pipeline crude, which according to the orginal pipeline documents is only for sale in the US. (several groups have traced this during previous "shortages" and it is known that through "paper exchanges" (for other non US oil, which probably would be imported anyway) or for actually pumping it out into a land base tank and then back into a tanker, quite a bit of it ends up in the far east, when the price is right, sometimes to make the price rise)))
so this same oil that payed the alaska permanent fund generously and then was shipped to the west coast of the US refined and sold as gas for under $1 per gallon just a couple years ago AND still provided a decent profit for the retailer/wholesaler/ refiner/shipping/ pipeline drilling and production companies now fetches $3 plus at around the same cost.
Where do you think the other $2 per gallon goes?
not the retailer who usually only makes a few cents a gallon (most of the profit is in the minimarket) a local station just claimed the make more on the $0.99 corndog (57 cents profit) than filling an SUV )
but the refining shipping and production end all owned by the smae small group of MEGA-corps get all sorts of tax breaks to "help their struggling industry" and have/ will continue to post mind boggling record profits.
Your tax dollars, a pulic servents at work for your benifit, no doubt.
Enron is the tip of a very large iceberg
Bolivia nationalizes it's Nat. Gas industry
you'd think, given the Bolivia is landlock and only can sell to it's neighbors, primarily Brazil, should mean shortage in Brazil no effect on the world energy market (everyone agrees the Bolivia no longer has the skills or resources to run and develop the gas reserves without the outside help, and the oil companies, despite investing more than $5Billion in the last 10 years will abandon it's investment rather that run it and turn over ALL the profits to the bolivian gov't)
however Brazil NEEDS the Nat. Gas to fend off the staggering inflation of the last 15-20 years, so they will by LPG deliveries (by ship) at whatever price the market demands.
so LPG (a large portion of industrial and home heating for the new england area, down the east coast middle america (via pipeline from the gulf of mexico)) and S califorina will rise or be unavailable (because all available LPG ships already are 100% booked), so demand for other fuel will rise, etc, etc
this will be a tough summer, gas wise and could be a MUCH tougher winter.
on the gasoline front the cheapest gas station around here Arco (which already adds 10-12% alcohol (almost free) to it's fuel (federal subide program, no longer available) at the cheapest station I know of has $3.21- $3.11-$3.01 posted tonight)
This areas gas is only produced from Alaska pipeline crude, which according to the orginal pipeline documents is only for sale in the US. (several groups have traced this during previous "shortages" and it is known that through "paper exchanges" (for other non US oil, which probably would be imported anyway) or for actually pumping it out into a land base tank and then back into a tanker, quite a bit of it ends up in the far east, when the price is right, sometimes to make the price rise)))
so this same oil that payed the alaska permanent fund generously and then was shipped to the west coast of the US refined and sold as gas for under $1 per gallon just a couple years ago AND still provided a decent profit for the retailer/wholesaler/ refiner/shipping/ pipeline drilling and production companies now fetches $3 plus at around the same cost.
Where do you think the other $2 per gallon goes?
not the retailer who usually only makes a few cents a gallon (most of the profit is in the minimarket) a local station just claimed the make more on the $0.99 corndog (57 cents profit) than filling an SUV )
but the refining shipping and production end all owned by the smae small group of MEGA-corps get all sorts of tax breaks to "help their struggling industry" and have/ will continue to post mind boggling record profits.
Your tax dollars, a pulic servents at work for your benifit, no doubt.
Enron is the tip of a very large iceberg
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Buck-O
Coastermaker
T-Shirt said:It's getting worse.
Bolivia nationalizes it's Nat. Gas industry
you'd think, given the Bolivia is landlock and only can sell to it's neighbors, primarily Brazil, should mean shortage in Brazil no effect on the world energy market (everyone agrees the Bolivia no longer has the skills or resources to run and develop the gas reserves without the outside help, and the oil companies, despite investing more than $5Billion in the last 10 years will abandon it's investment rather that run it and turn over ALL the profits to the bolivian gov't)
however Brazil NEEDS the Nat. Gas to fend off the staggering inflation of the last 15-20 years, so they will by LPG deliveries (by ship) at whatever price the market demands.
so LPG (a large portion of industrial and home heating for the new england area, down the east coast middle america (via pipeline from the gulf of mexico)) and S califorina will rise or be unavailable (because all available LPG ships already are 100% booked), so demand for other fuel will rise, etc, etc
this will be a tough summer, gas wise and could be a MUCH tougher winter.
on the gasoline front the cheapest gas station around here Arco (which already adds 10-12% alcohol (almost free) to it's fuel (federal subide program, no longer available) at the cheapest station I know of has $3.21- $3.11-$3.01 posted tonight)
This areas gas is only produced from Alaska pipeline crude, which according to the orginal pipeline documents is only for sale in the US. (several groups have traced this during previous "shortages" and it is known that through "paper exchanges" (for other non US oil, which probably would be imported anyway) or for actually pumping it out into a land base tank and then back into a tanker, quite a bit of it ends up in the far east, when the price is right, sometimes to make the price rise)))
so this same oil that payed the alaska permanent fund generously and then was shipped to the west coast of the US refined and sold as gas for under $1 per gallon just a couple years ago AND still provided a decent profit for the retailer/wholesaler/ refiner/shipping/ pipeline drilling and production companies now fetches $3 plus at around the same cost.
Where do you think the other $2 per gallon goes?
not the retailer who usually only makes a few cents a gallon (most of the profit is in the minimarket) a local station just claimed the make more on the $0.99 corndog (57 cents profit) than filling an SUV )
but the refining shipping and production end all owned by the smae small group of MEGA-corps get all sorts of tax breaks to "help their struggling industry" and have/ will continue to post mind boggling record profits.
Your tax dollars, a pulic servents at work for your benifit, no doubt.
Enron is the tip of a very large iceberg
Thats all fine and dandy.
But i have to come back to it again. The Oil industryis a CARTEL! And as long as its a Cartel, there is nothing anyone will do about it. And as long as their hands are deep into the pocket of every politician inthe world, they will continue to do nothing.
About the only country that makes no qualms about it is Dubai UAE. And frankly, im getting sick and tired of seeing them do 130mph downteh freeway in their sterling silver plated mercedes (and im not making that up either).
Bobbythecat
E.M.I.
Let's see, the price was of an old one the last time I posed, but the recent one says that regular gas is $3.37 a gallon. The high octane is $3.63 or something to that effect. Yay.
madstork91
The One, The Only...
3.79 in some places around here... 3.99 for the premium. I loath driving my vette these days.
$3.199 this morning for regular, reportedly as low as $3.06 in some local areas (I'm not driving 20 miles out of my way to find out!)
What sucks is this is the best time to mow my fields so I've used $60+, so far still not done, and it would be better to do a second pass before it rains this weekend (or the new growth will be clumpy )
What sucks is this is the best time to mow my fields so I've used $60+, so far still not done, and it would be better to do a second pass before it rains this weekend (or the new growth will be clumpy
)