The 'Ring Record Taken By BMW M3 CSL - 7:22.8

[Rob Williams]

From our front-page news:

Last month, I posted about a fresh Nordschleife record that was taken by the Pagani Zonda F... a car that those with the cash could actually acquire. Other records are more impressive, but the cars to accomplish them wouldn't be deemed street legal and have been modified beyond reason. That's why the Zonda, to many, had the #1 real record for the 'Ring.

Well, it hasn't even been a month and that record was also smashed (by six seconds!). I am also not sure what's more exciting, the fact that it was done with my favorite car or the fact that the entire video has been posted online for all adrenaline junkies to glue themselves to. For you curious which non-road car actually holds the record, it would be the Radical SR8, with a lap of 6:55. That video is here.

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The incredible thing is that the car puts out 532.7 rear-wheel horsepower and weighs 3,139 pounds with thirty liters of fuel. That means it has 70 fewer HP and weighs 400 pounds more than the Pagani Zonda F it dethroned. The car can't be faster down the straights, so this must be all in the corners. We wouldn't mind seeing videos of the two laps side-by-side to find out where the BMW leaves its Italian competition behind.

Source: Loaded.se Via: Autoblog
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[b1lk1]

Damn......... That engine just sounds so ANGRY!!!! Incredible sound and an incredible lap too.

 

[madmat]

It sounds angry, like a nest of angry hornets angry. I'd shoot myself if I had to listen to that through a 3 or 4 hour race. Be that as it may, the guys Rob quotes about how it makes less RWHP than the Zonda quote horsepower but not torque. Horsepower alone only tells half the tale, the car could make less HP but make way more torque than the Zonda and have a higher redline to boot. Translated that means that the car could use a slightly lower gear coupled with superior pulling power and a higher revving engine to come out with more power pulling out of corners, quicker acceleration and still be able to match the Zonda on the straights.

Horsepower numbers alone are B.S. because while horsepower impresses people it's torque that wins races.

BTW, while un-related I find this Supra to be way more impressive from a street car standpoint.

 

[b1lk1]

[rant]

I normally will not even click on a supra link. They are extremely overrated and 99% of them are only making useable power at very high RPM power in an unusable power band making them useless for anything except dyno runs or straight lines. NO supra cannot hold a single candle to this BMW in terms of absolute performance. I have no respect for supras. Streetfire is the biggest reason I feel this way since all those dyno queens are posted there. Honestly, that video shows it going in a straight line where most any car can be modified to take off like that. That car would fly straight off the road if you tried to get on the power in a corner. I guarantee that the guy driving that supra in that video had his foot to the floor for 2-3 seconds before his oversized turbo could spool up enough boost to make power. Just not impressive when compared to a car like the BMW that makes instant power at all revs.

[/end rant]

The BMW is the total package able to acatually take all it's power and use it in all situations. Honestly, I sincerely doubt it is even possible to modify a supra enough to even get it within a minute of that BMW's lap time.

 

[madmat]

I could personally care less about road courses, how many of us drive them in day to day driving? I'm more interested in straight line acceleration. While I agree that the turbo lag is killing that Supra and it would benefit highly from a blower you can't argue that the acceleration that it does exhibit is just unreal.

Personally I hate ricers just on general principal but I can't help but wonder how many big V8 powered cars have had their asses handed to them by that boggy sounding little demon. BTW I'd bet all the money I'll earn for the rest of my life that the Supra would hand the BMW it's ass in a drag race.

 

[b1lk1]

In a rolling start type race, it would most likely win any race against most V8's. But from a stop, the supra would be so far behind that it would be a lopsided race in favor of the high powered V8. On a track, the supra would run out of time before it could spool up enough power to win a 1/4 mile drag against that BMW.

 

[madmat]

Hence it needing a blower. Either that or sequential turbos. The huge single turbo thing is ridiculous but the end results can be amazing. On a track the turbo would be spooled up because you don't launch from a sitting stop idling like taking off from a red light. You launch with the engine wound up tight, hitting the rev limiter and making maximum power. The Supra would hand the BMW it's head on a platter. The BMW isn't a car designed for straight line performance, it's designed for going around corners, fast. They never expected the drivers of those types of cars to accelerate in a straight line unless it's a long straight after a corner and then the car is already in motion. At best I would wager the BMW capable of a 12ish second standing quarter mile. Nothing to laugh at but we've been making cars here in the US that can achieve that feat since the 80's (from the factory).

 

[Rob Williams]

BTW, while un-related I find this Supra to be way more impressive from a street car standpoint.

Was that NOS that the Supra activated? As soon as he took off, you could hear the sudden burst of power. I am not that familiar with NOS, so I can't assume it was, but he took off way fast.

BTW I'd bet all the money I'll earn for the rest of my life that the Supra would hand the BMW it's ass in a drag race.

Of course. The Supra was modified for the purpose of kicking ass in straight lines, while the Bimmer is designed as an all-around car, handling corners like a dream, excelling on the straights and kicking ass off the line. The Supra is a car that will perform well only on the straights, and if that's what you are into (which you are), then that's fine. But comparing the two makes little sense.

I'm not a huge fan of ricers either, but the new Nissan GT-R is mind-blowing. Gorgeous and huge power. As far as Toyota goes... Supras (to me) were always ugly as hell. The only Toyota I think I've ever liked the design of was the late-gen MR2, which may or may not have been due to it's resemlance to a certain German sportster.

As for noise, I will side with you on that one. The M3 was screechy, although the Supra was no better ;-)

 

[madmat]

That wasn't nitrous, it was the turbo finally spooling up. That's the whine which starts as the Supra starts getting into the throttle after the guy filming begins to pass him. Had he punched the giggle juice button there would've been no lag as the nitrous would've acted as a chemical supercharger and boosted the engine until the turbo caught up.

I compared the two only as a case of them both being overkill for running to the grocery store to grab the wife a box of tampons

 

[Rob Williams]

I compared the two only as a case of them both being overkill for running to the grocery store to grab the wife a box of tampons

Of course both were overkill.. they were designed for overkill ;-)

And yeah, it would be hard to step back into your M3 with tampons in hand and still feel like a man.

 

[b1lk1]

I'd say that BMW is more likely able to do mid 11's in the quater mile with 500+ RWHP. Also, if you fully spooled the turbo on that supra and launched it you'd absolutely brutally destroy the drivetrain. Either the tranny, driveshaft or rearend would explode. That is the problem with most of those cars. They are generally strong enough for doing rolling drag races, but from a standing start they just cannot put the power down safely. They only make power over 5K RPM and many are not making power until 6K RPM. They generally have a 7-8K RPM redline so you see how small and high the powerband is.

Now this is a truly impressive video of a turbo'd vehicle:

http://videos.streetfire.net/video/00f3255f-85a0-44d7-9c0f-983c00042243.htm

Put that up against your silly supra. The V8 does nicely building boost faster. That car would make that supra look like it is going in reverse.

 

[madmat]

After working on and around IHRA top fuel rail dragsters I'm not impressed with turbo V8's. Actually, I'm not impressed with turbos at all. A belt driven blower will always reign supreme as the power adder of choice. There's no lag (you can still see the lag on the Chevelle) even if there's a small parasitic loss. The turbo will cause a similar loss in HP due to the restriction in the exhaust so it's a no brainer... instant power on tap or power with a defined lag in performance.

When a turbo car can run in the 4 second brackets I'll be convinced that they've perfected them but it'll never happen. BTW, a Lenko 5 speed and a narrowed 9 inch would make that Supra bulletproof.

 

[b1lk1]

I 100% agree with you on that. No turbo will ever beat a supercharger, even with the parasitic loss of the supercharger. BUT, compared to that supra, the V8 turbo is a much nastier alternative.

I also agree with your recommendations for that supra. Unfortunately, if you look into the crowd that runs them and other high HP imports, the mentality is that they run as many stock components as possible in the drivetrain and most just bolt on a giant overboosting turbo making them very succeptable for drivetrain explosions.

 

[madmat]

Yeah, I know. Sad isn't it? This is why I hate ricers as a rule. They do "performance" as a bolt on thing, not as a gestalt(1) thing.