The new build ...

[Psi*]

... or upgrade ... or gutting an old machine & putting in all new stuff. This thread will about the progress & will have pix (as soon as I figure out how). For the 1st time ever I have taken other's advice (Rob, 2Tired2Tango, Kougar, gibbersome, Merlin & at least someone else) about the build. Also, I don't know whether it is good idea to write all of the cr@ppy little details or not, but here it starts!.

Over the past couple of months I was clearly commenting about what I was planning & received advice (solicited & unsolicited) and other times I was just throwing ideas out to get comment ... sometimes it worked & sometimes it did not. This forum is smaller than many but opinions are more guarded but experienced than what I see elsewhere. For instance, visit an auto forum sometime & you will see a lot of people posting just to see their own post ... but they don't know squat!

The PC to be rebuilt is a 7 y/o WC-ed dual Athlon MP computer that was running Windoze 2K. It ran perfectly 24x7 until a couple of months ago when the HDD started failing. Also, I moved about 1 1/2 years ago from Pennsylvania to Connecticut, but I have a lot of office stuff still in storage in PA including the W2K OS disk. But God only knows where it is in storage.

But, who would repair a system like this anyway? Even tho a new HDD could be had for $60. As it is I have a business dependent on high performance PCs. In the day this was the high performance machine as it was grossly OC-ed. For the business I have several PCs & fortunately this PC was on the bottom of the list. Its name is dogbert. The point is that the case and especially the WC system was pretty expensive at the time so I plan to re-use as much as possible for a new build with current processor(s) & to be compatible with future CPUs.

 

[Psi*]

The old WC system was all bought from Swiftech. I will re-use an Eheim model 1048 110 VAC pump, 2x120 radiator, & MCRES reservoir. Of course the water block will be new & I chose the Swiftech Apogee XT ... the current high ranking block for the I7 1366 socket. Also replaced will be the tubing.

The old tubing seems fine but it is 1/4". This will be changed to 1/2". The expense here are fittings. I decided to use Swiftech barbed which are the least expensive @ $6/pair ... I need 4 pairs. Swiftech indicates that the ID of the fittings are a little larger; something that I am not too concerned about given this pump & 1/2" tubing.

Eheim pumps have different threads on gazinta & gazouta ports and are recessed. Typical tubing fittings do not reach & 1 side is an odd size. Fortunately this pump is has been popular in WC-ing so adapters are easily found with a simple Google. That search led me to Performance PCs in FL and coincidentally just a few minutes from my son. This would be a 1st time buy from them & is always a nervous thing on the net. He scoped the place out, "Went by Performance-PC today... that place is actually pretty nice. They don't have any sort of 'brick and mortar' retail store setup, really... just a few things in a lobby. But, the place is pretty big. Definitely seems legit!".

On Thursday, 12/3/09, I ordered Swiftech Apogee XT water block, the pump outlet adapters, 1/2" Swiftech fittings, tubing, some miscellaneous screws, rubber fan mounts & a Seasonice X750 PSU. They beat 'egg for the PSU by $20. Withing 2 hours I received a notification about the UPS expected delivery date, 12/7! And, I received the order on that date ... no big deal & kuddos to my new vendor.

 

[Psi*]

On the same day (Thursday) the order for the WC parts was placed, I made the 'egg order;
ASUS P6X58D,
I7 920,
12 GB Corsair Dominator RAM,
XFX Radeon HD 5770,
Samsung F1 500 GB HDD,
& a replacement Trendnet "Green" Ethernet switch ... obviously unrelated to the new computer.

Newegg shipped from 3 locations & didn't go out until Saturday. As a consequence these parts didn't come in until Tuesday & Wednesday. And, of course, no big deal here as everything was packed well.

So now, all parts have arrived to start the build. I haven't begun the dis-assembly as yet. This will take a bit of time as the pump & radiator need to cleaned. The pump can be completely diassembled so it will be easy to clean out. The radiator will take more time since you cannot really tell, but some bleach, hot water, & plenty of flushing should take of it.

 

[Rob Williams]

To upload pictures right in the forum, just use the attachments option when making a new post (it's found under the "Additional Options" section). You can them upload up to eight pictures at a time, and the constraints (file size and resolution) are at the bottom of the pop-up.

For instance, visit an auto forum sometime & you will see a lot of people posting just to see their own post ... but they don't know squat!

Yes, that's one thing I love about our forum, lots of bright and interesting people!

That search led me to Performance PCs in FL and coincidentally just a few minutes from my son.

Hah, if only it were always that easy to get a place scoped out. Glad to hear that the first transaction went so well.

I can't comment on the water-cooling stuff, but 1/2" definitely seems to be the way to go, along with that block. The rest of your parts look good as well... if I was building a PC today, I don't think I'd change too much (except for the graphics, but I game). I'm looking forward to seeing how you like that P6X58D.

I don't envy the cleanup process you're about to go through... water-cooling can be messy ;-) Definitely flaunt us some pics throughout the process!

 

[Psi*]

... if I was building a PC today, I don't think I'd change too much (except for the graphics, but I game). I'm looking forward to seeing how you like that P6X58D.

I don't envy the cleanup process you're about to go through... water-cooling can be messy ;-) Definitely flaunt us some pics throughout the process!

So, you know and coincidentally, you just reviewed this graphics card ... well a pair of them I guess. It is coincidental in that I had ordered the card before you published the review. So a "nice pair" could be in my future.

I have been taking pix in a hi res mode with my cell phone. I think they will be ok. There will be "the scary" part when I look at some unknown period of time of dust & dirt accumulation; The analytical section with, "those old water blocks were not seated very well ... but they did work well."; followed with, "anyone want an IWILL m/b complete with 2X Athlon MP processors & 1 GB (could be just 500 MB) of DDR?

I have to figure out how to connect the 1/2" tubing to my old radiator. Something of the "fly in the ointment" at the moment.

 

[Psi*]

Home Depot parts ...

The thing about Home Depot parts, is that they look way too obvious like Home Depot parts. Today was supposed to be all about getting cheap fittings to match the 1/2" ID tubing to the old system radiator.

The PITA is that the fittings are on the side of the old Swiftech radiator & are not recessed tapped fittings like current radiators AND they are 3/8" OD tubes ... no threads. I was considering living with this as the restriction is about 1" long. In the scheme of things, I don't like it but practically it won't matter as they are minor restrictions in the full system.

Unfortunately that 1" plus the fittings from HD that I could cobble together to mate with the 1/2" tubing, stuck out from the radiator 3". I also spent $17 at HD.

Second, the radiator is aluminum. In a way I wasn't too concerned about that as the old system used 2 Athlon MPs which are 68 W at stock clock. Mine were overclocked for their 7+ years of service & I don't know what the actual power usage was, but the pair must have easily been pushing 200W which is about what the I7-920 will be dissipating when I get it overclocked not to mention what the hexa-cores will dissipate ... but I doubt it will be less.

Another way of thinking about that is the amount of dirt accumulated in the radiator greatly reduced its effectiveness. Shall we say "derated". Yes, and by quite a bit.

So fine. A new radiator is $39 plus $6 shipping from 'egg. Not a great deal & if I had done some of this clean up before I placed last week's order it would have been thrown in with the other stuff at no extra. So you pay for your laziness.

I just ordered a Swiftech MCR-220 QP radiator, copper + brass. The bummer is that it won't be here until Tuesday. Guess I'll take this time to thoroughly clean everything in the old system. It needs it. There are dust bunnies in every little crack. To me this speaks very loudly about over fanning your system as it is one big air filter. I have decided, today, that the new system will be using the ASUS Q-Fan speed control with the idea that this will help slow dust accumulation.

 

[2Tired2Tango]

I have decided, today, that the new system will be using the ASUS Q-Fan speed control with the idea that this will help slow dust accumulation.

Q-Fan is a bios feature on ASUS motherboards it's great for CPU cooling, I have it enabled in mine and have never had any problems with it.

But perhaps you should also consider smart fans for the rest of it as well?

For Example: http://www.vantecusa.com/front/product/pro_list/35

The beauty of temperature controlled fans is that each can operate independently according to it's own conditions... You may have one fan spinning faster than another because it's in a warmer part of the case, but there's nothing to tinker adjust or set... the fans do it on their own.

As a rule I would suggest you avoid the drive bay controllers with all the knobs and winky lights... They may look hyper-cool but many of them are of very low quality... the cheaper ones contribute more heat than they control.

Smart fans seem the best way to go.

 

[Psi*]

Being an OC-er I usually have the fans running full tilt all of the time. There are no high speed noisy fans, BTW. So there is a little noise, but not so much. A huge amount of dust tho.

Thanks for reminding me about smart fans. I do have a couple of smart fans, someplace ... in storage in FL I think. I have thought that if I need additional cooling that I would add a smart fan to the outside of the radiator to pull more air thru when the temp rises. Located there it/they will be in the normal air exhaust (from the inside fans thru the radiator) & be best located. Makes the back of the machine look more Rube Goldberg, but haven't thought of a better method.

I long ago tossed a drive bay sensor fan controller panel. I looked at one once that could control several fans ... at least 10. It also had an equal number of thermistors with all of this fed back into a bay mounted alphanumeric readout & controller. Obviously you don't need 10 fans & that wasn't the idea, but you could monitor temperature at 10 locations with a few select locations controlling a few fans. It was a wiring nightmare tho. Think about 10 probe wires plus X number of fan wire coming to a central location in the drive bay AND they did not plug into the rear of the unit either ... which would have been worse actually.

I also tried a squirrel cage drive bay fan once. The length of the squirrel cage was about the width of a drive bay & pulled air in from the front of the case. Looked & sounded like a good idea, but it put out no-o-o air.

 

[Rob Williams]

Being an OC-er I usually have the fans running full tilt all of the time. There are no high speed noisy fans, BTW. So there is a little noise, but not so much. A huge amount of dust tho.

Hmm, how about wrapping the entire PC in plastic wrap?

 

[Psi*]

I need to change out the fan connectors so they can plug into the m/b. All of the fans just do not need to run all of the time.

It seems in my enthusiasm to finally get this project started, I chose a m/b that has *no* IDE connectors ... so much for reusing the old DVD CD-ROM drive. Well I could get a SATA to IDE conversion card & have. They are $15 or $20, so for another $10 I can replace it with a drive with the interface built-in.

I am going to start posting some pix today starting with old system. I actually have it "plumbed", filled, & will probably get to install the OS this eve.

 

[Merlin]

I need to change out the fan connectors so they can plug into the m/b. All of the fans just do not need to run all of the time.

It seems in my enthusiasm to finally get this project started, I chose a m/b that has *no* IDE connectors ... so much for reusing the old DVD CD-ROM drive. Well I could get a SATA to IDE conversion card & have. They are $15 or $20, so for another $10 I can replace it with a drive with the interface built-in.

I am going to start posting some pix today starting with old system. I actually have it "plumbed", filled, & will probably get to install the OS this eve.

We like Pics

 

[Psi*]

Picures of the old box

Alright, Merlin, you're right ... I gave my digital camera to my son for a while so the forum gets pix from my LG Incite cell phone. It is autofocus but of course it is not on a tripod & is nearly impossible to tell what it is focused on ... and that is when my finger is not in front of the lens (if you can call it that). Been a while since I have done *anything* like this.

The tubing is 1/4" ID. It is orange because of an experiment a few years ago when I added some bleach to the system to kill off the flora & fauna that was developing then. But orange? One would ask, I have no answer except possibly, "who knew?!"

Also, I named the pictures so holding the mouse over the pic will show its name that is sort of descriptive. Now I know & will have more descriptive names on the next upload of pix.

 

[Rob Williams]

It seems in my enthusiasm to finally get this project started, I chose a m/b that has *no* IDE connectors ... so much for reusing the old DVD CD-ROM drive. Well I could get a SATA to IDE conversion card & have. They are $15 or $20, so for another $10 I can replace it with a drive with the interface built-in.

I might be in the minority, but I'd actually gladly pay the $25 for another ODD just to not have to ever look at the ridiculous IDE connector for the life of the PC. I stopped using IDE long ago and haven't looked back.

Oh man, I wish I wasn't eating when I looked at all that dust and dirtied coolant

When you said orange tubing, I have no idea it'd be that bright. What color did it begin out as?

 

[Psi*]

i have been concerned about HDD channel speed for years, but truthfully it has not mattered so much with anything that I do. Not to be the wet blanket ... or anything. Boot time? Isn't that something that you do once every month or 2 under duress when MS sends a required update?

HAHA the tubing was clear! And, well ... there may have been a little chemical reaction with a very small amount of auto anti-freeze & Water Wetter.

That 1/4" ID tubing was a real PITA to purge & get the crud out. It just doesn't. This was a motivation to try 1/2" ID. But the 1/4" was easy to dress up nicely because of the smaller bend radius. More, when I put some pix of the new build.

 

[Rob Williams]

I'm anti-IDE not because of the diminished performance, but just because I hate the connector. I've had so many issues with them over the years (stubbern to plug in, resulting in bent pins on the drive), and the fact that they are just ugly. Aside from that, they're fine. But, I still hate them

As for the tubing... that's insane. I can't believe you managed to turn completely clear tubing into bright orange, haha. Some people might actually dig that effect ;-)

 

[Kougar]

God, that reservoir makes me shudder and that dust makes me want to wheeze!

I used to use Water Wetter, but I don't anymore as I can't seem to notice any improvement in temps beyond normal fluctuations. It also reacts with a large number of color additives and other things you would add to a coolant loop. The only thing I will ever use today would be distilled water, a drop of algaecide, and a drop of pond/pool dye in a color that I don't mind looking at for the next year. That recipe has yielded completely clean tubing with over 8 months of 24/7 high heat loads, didn't have any growth or chemical reactions.

Also, I'm not sure which tube is the inlet/outlet on that res, but you need to keep more water in there to prevent air being sucked into the loop, especially if the machine is moved around any when running.

 

[Psi*]

You suggested earlier this recipe once before which is what I did do ... but I couldn't resist Water Wetter

 

[Kougar]

I admit I used to recommend Water Wetter myself, there are some really passionate watercooling users out there that swear by it. The science behind the reasoning makes sense as well... but in hindsight don't think a waterblock is just that sensitive for it to matter. It's the block design, choice of radiator size, and block type (high flow versus high pressure impinging) that affect temps the most.

Water Wetter isn't cheap though and it DOES react with almost everything I mixed with it... I put the last of mine in my car and just don't use it anymore because I can't substantiate the claims of a performance improvement with it. The engine gets far hotter than my computer anyway...

 

[Psi*]

I understand what you saying Kougar although mildly loaded auto engines can be in the 60 deg C to 80 deg C range. Engines don't like boiling water either.

I could do without Wetter's coloring, but reduced surface tension (aka surfactant) helps water absorb & release heat, and retard the stickiness of crap. Such as to the plumbing of a WC system. Also, it does help with corrosion ... by itself, water is a very active chemical. I also have a dribble of anti-freeze in the system with that in mind & works with Wetter for a little better heat transfer. But it is not al-l-l about the heat.

The stained tubing was caused by my own ignorant experimenting with substances that I did not understand or even give a thought to. WW is a polymer of some kind. I added bleach in a moment of frustration & they do not like each other. Bleach is nasty stuff & best be kept to the washer or porcelain receptacles.

I finally got around to cleaning my original WC radiator. The one with the small ports. I got nothing out of it. Doubting, I then open up one of the old Athlon water blocks and it too was clean. I cannot say that this was due to WW. But the last charge of distilled water, WW, & anti-freeze is all that went in that system ... after flushing the bleach disaster out of it. Yes, the fluid in the reservoir looked very ugly if not scary, but the copper seemed to be clean. Subjective term of course.

 

[Psi*]

1st pic of the new system

This is a view of the new system. The old system meticulously cleaned, all fans removed & cleaned with a tooth brush ... if your going to do it, do it well ... what a PITA. I meant to re-wax it, but got side tracked & didn't get to it. Kidding ... only kidding!

This is ~8 feet of tubing & bought 10. I was obviously extremely anal about keeping large bend radius with this really soft 1/2" ID tubing. I had no idea what coolant temps would be. The warmer the system the softer the tubing & the more likely it will collapse. The old tubing kept collapsing at the grommets on the back wall of the case. So at the expense of neatness there are "flying" tubes ... and I didn't think about getting plastic connector elbows for making sharp bends.

Also, I did get tubing springs seen in the pic. One pre-cut length. It really is no big deal putting it on. Zero effort compared to Thermo-tec wrapping an exhaust down pipe, but I digress. I see tubing springs as a protector to the exposed tubing in back as well as a flattening prevention system for the tubing. And, I believe that it will work well for that purpose.

My brain did turn off for a bit as I was working out where to put the springs. In my opinion, now, that I have it done. I would make 1st priority to put the springs on the hot side of the system .... in between the water block & the radiator in other words. Next is every connector where the tubing immediately goes into or might go into a tight radius (still subjective). Last, are tubing sections external to the case although not a biggy as this tubing sidewall is 1/8" thick so accidental cutting would have to be a pretty big accident. I did put it on the section between the reservoir & the pump due to the tight bends even tho this is the cold side.

In short, tubing springs make working with the tubing a little easier, in my opinion.

Also, I used shorty barbed fittings @ $5 or $6 a pair. They are more than adequate for a water tight seal. Perhaps it depends on the point of view tho. It is a real struggle to work off the tubing even when just slightly slipped onto a fitting. Quite amazing actually. But with coolant in the system things can get slippy so all fitting are tightly secured with Ty-Wraps. The more expensive quick disconnect fittings would allow easier dis-assembly for system clean up. From my 1st pics that is a consideration. My next system will use the barbed tho.

Last, I'll get some better closeups before I close the case ... its laying on the side on my desk w/o side panels for the time being.