Max Payne 3 Review

[Rob Williams]

After a long hiatus, the infamous Max Payne is finally back. But before you think he's been living the good-life since the last time we checked in, think again. Beaten down and lacking any feeling of self-worth, we continue the Payne saga by getting an honest job protecting a wealthy family. What could possibly go wrong?

Read through our look at Max Payne 3 and then discuss it here!

 

[Relayer]

Something I noticed while looking at the screenies on pg 3 was how poorly the texture mapping was done on some models. In the first screenshot the model in the upper right that looks like a bunch of pyramids stuck together there's stretching and misalignment of the textures. On the last screenshot the tile textures where the wall meets the window sill are also poorly mapped.

I only point it out because I do modeling, and even though I'm just a hobbyist, I would never leave textures looking like that.

 

[Brett Thomas]

An interesting catch, Relayer...and quite accurate. I will say that your point of being a hobbyist might be WHY you wouldn't let that happen - a professional has to get a "good" job done in a short time, where a hobbyist can do a GREAT job because they don't have a time limit and it's something they're passionate about. But that being said, it brings up a very good point that Rob and I were discussing just the other day about graphical advancement and where things really have not moved 'forward' all that well. I really think people-modeling in particular has stagnated.

 

[Tharic-Nar]

I think the poly count problem is the result of the 7 year generational stagnation in consoles. Hence the necessity for tessellation - it allows for 'post-process' type effects on models, so the original model may remain a low poly model for low-end hardware and consoles, but bumped up for high-end systems. It saves having to make two different model sets. I know model swapping is available and used in LoD for terrain and static models, but I'm not sure they use it for highly animated models like people, (since the skeletons and morph points will behave differently compared to their higher poly versions).

Textures have remained static for a very long time, but additional layers are being added, like depth maps, normal maps, gloss and alpha.

One thing I think that needs to be expanded on is something called order-independent transparency - something we've seen before in an AMD tech-demo...

<object width="560" height="315"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/NzthL8JXnbs?version=3&amp;hl=en_GB"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/NzthL8JXnbs?version=3&hl=en_GB" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="560" height="315" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true"></embed></object>

Now use this in conjunction with a person. You'd have 2 levels to the person's skin, the outer skin and the muscle/vein underneath. Could figure out some muscle deformation too. Anyway, with the two layers, the top layer will be semitransparent, allowing some light through to the layer underneath, with its own bump, gloss, etc layers. It would be possible to get some very interesting and realistic lighting effects, instead of relying on just solid textures. In ray-trace, this would be the equivalent of sub-surface scattering. Though admittedly, I have no idea on the cost of processing this in a raster method.

Expand on this further, and you could create layers to a building, or even allow for someones skin to be peeled off, instead of relying on a separate/fixed model for that purpose. Thick glass could be done more effectively, energy shields, etc...

But the above method is a DX11 thing... and we all know where that leads... nowhere. Damn you consoles...

Anyway, if there is one thing I'd like to see abolished at least in my life-time, is clipping. Robes cutting through legs and chairs, hair defying the laws of quantum physics, sword wielders immune to their own weapons when sheathing. One day it'll be fixed... one day...

 

[Rob Williams]

Something I noticed while looking at the screenies on pg 3 was how poorly the texture mapping was done on some models. In the first screenshot the model in the upper right that looks like a bunch of pyramids stuck together there's stretching and misalignment of the textures. On the last screenshot the tile textures where the wall meets the window sill are also poorly mapped.

I only point it out because I do modeling, and even though I'm just a hobbyist, I would never leave textures looking like that.

I admit I can't find the polygonal character you're speaking about, but the issue in the last image on page 3 is rather blatant. It wasn't noticeable in-game due to it being a very hectic situation.

a professional has to get a "good" job done in a short time

Even so... this modeler / designer had to have been lazy. There's just no excuse for the messiness of that final shot.

or even allow for someones skin to be peeled off

You are one sick frog, you know that?

Good information though!

 

[Relayer]

An interesting catch, Relayer...and quite accurate. I will say that your point of being a hobbyist might be WHY you wouldn't let that happen - a professional has to get a "good" job done in a short time, where a hobbyist can do a GREAT job because they don't have a time limit and it's something they're passionate about. But that being said, it brings up a very good point that Rob and I were discussing just the other day about graphical advancement and where things really have not moved 'forward' all that well. I really think people-modeling in particular has stagnated.

The time constraint argument is valid. Modelers are often contracted and unless they can work quickly they aren't going to make any money.

UV mapping is the most painful part of modeling. Making the mesh is fun. Texturing it is rewarding because you see your creation come to life. Unwrapping the model can be very tedious. There are some really good tools for mapping now, but the tools included with the modeling apps are generally not too elegant. While neither of those models are complex, both of these "errors" were caused by not taking enough care unwrapping the models.

Once tessellation becomes standard (Dx11 consoles), we should see major improvements in models. Right now the models still have to be lowres. Adding tessellation only helps so much when the original model was made with one eye on the polygon counter.

 

[Doomsday]

After SWTOR I just can't get my self to play any other game! Only ME3(with its bullshit ending) and Diablo 3!
Hmm... though I loved the first one and liked the 2nd, I might give this a try once it gets cheaper, lol!