Game Developers on Gold Selling

Rob Williams

Editor-in-Chief
Staff member
Moderator
From our front-page news:
Aside from the obvious addictive nature, there is another real downside to any type of MMO game: gold sellers. For the uninitiated, gold sellers are companies who sell in-game currency and even accounts, for real-life cash. This is a reality that's either loved or hated, and it's easy to see things from the perspective of both sides. If one thing's for certain though, it's that gold sellers skew in-game economies, and that's the factor that personally bugs me most about it.

Eurogamer has just wrapped up a four-part series on the investigation of gold sellers, and they've received perspectives on the state of things from gamers, the gold sellers themselves and also the game developers. After reading, you'll likely have a newfound appreciation for what the game publishers have to deal with, because as it appears, this is not a simple problem to deal with.

One developer stated that the harder they push against botters, the stronger they become. He went on to say that if they keep pushing, eventually bots will be completely undetectable, making things even more difficult to deal with. Indeed, it's a tough problem, and though some companies are doing interesting things to combat the issue, nothing seems foolproof.

I could write an essay on my personal thoughts on the matter, but to keep things simple, I'll say that I think game developers need to revamp their thinking on how to design an MMO. Create it in such a way that gamers don't feel the need to go purchase currency from gold sellers. That's of course easier said than done, but I have no doubts it can be accomplished in a unique way. In my opinion, an MMO that completely lacks gold sellers will be the best one around. It's just too bad that this seems impossible to pull off.

gold_selling_041309.jpg

"Many people don't realise that the companies selling services for World of Warcraft often target the players they've sold their services to," argues the spokesperson. "Once these companies have access to an account, they will often turn around and sell the equipment and gold on the account or the actual account itself - if not immediately, then at some point down the line. In effect, players actually end up purchasing gold, items, or entire accounts stolen from other players.


Source: Eurogamer, Via: Slashdot
 

Merlin

The Tech Wizard
Just can't get into MMO games, I get bored and you depend on others to play the right way.
I like L4D, that's the closest I can get and still enjoy a team effort.
EVE has to be the most boring, traveling to plantet after planet mining and you get lost in the universe even if you have light travel
 

madstork91

The One, The Only...
Inflation: not just a real world problem.

Since money is generated virtually any time something is killed in, the longer a game runs, the higher potential for inflation there is.

The only time money is taken out of the system, is when people quit playing/get banned.

EVE has to be the most boring, traveling to plantet after planet mining and you get lost in the universe even if you have light travel

I played EVE for 2 weeks. While mining (since it was all that I could do after two weeks of playing unless I wanted to join a guild with a ton of rules) I was ambushed by another player and killed. He was 15 levels higher than me. There was no escaping him. There was hardly even a warning.

I was then left near ship-less and without any money. My options were: to buy money, join a guild, start near from scratch, quit.

I quit.
 
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Merlin

The Tech Wizard
I played EVE for 2 weeks. While mining (since it was all that I could do after two weeks of playing unless I wanted to join a guild with a ton of rules) I was ambushed by another player and killed. He was 15 levels higher than me. There was no escaping him. There was hardly even a warning.

I was then left near ship-less and without any money. My options were: to buy money, join a guild, start near from scratch, quit.

Probably a search bot, that's another problem as well, .....cheaters.
What the hell, is fun about cheating, anyway.
You play the game for a chalenge!
 

madstork91

The One, The Only...
Try getting a toon to lvl 50 in lineage 2. Then tell me about a challenge.

The cap is 70, but I wouldn't suggest that a challenge so much as a way of life.
 

Doomsday

Tech Junkie
hate MMOs! it ruined the Warcraft Lore! may a bird poop on Blizzard for that! i soo miss the good old fashioned single player WarCraft RTS!! ah well Star Craft II and Diablo III might fill that gap, cant WAIT!!
 

Rob Williams

Editor-in-Chief
Staff member
Moderator
Merlin: I have the same mindset for the most part. Since I like to just hop on randomly to a game, I don't like having to either pair up with people I know or have to sit around for an hour waiting for a party to form. Although it's an MMO, I still enjoy being able to solo and not stress over having to make other people happy.

madstork91: The level cap at launch was 75, but it's now 85... truly hardcore. Imagine leveling to that, then leveling a sub-job to 80. Incredible. The amount of time that would require would be insane. Of course, if you've been playing since launch, then it really wouldn't be quite that bad. I'm still dying to go back to that game and just run around the game world there, I loved it there.
 

Altrus

Coastermaker
Merlin: I have the same mindset for the most part. Since I like to just hop on randomly to a game, I don't like having to either pair up with people I know or have to sit around for an hour waiting for a party to form. Although it's an MMO, I still enjoy being able to solo and not stress over having to make other people happy.

madstork91: The level cap at launch was 75, but it's now 85... truly hardcore. Imagine leveling to that, then leveling a sub-job to 80. Incredible. The amount of time that would require would be insane. Of course, if you've been playing since launch, then it really wouldn't be quite that bad. I'm still dying to go back to that game and just run around the game world there, I loved it there.

Actually at launch the cap went from 40 to 70 then at about c2 it was 75 and then when I quit it was at 80...that was about c4 I guess

According to rumors it took the same amount of time to get from 1-70 as it did from 70-80 things like grinding for an hour and only make like .05% exp((exp bar was a 100% meter)) Scary prospects really.....

I only managed to get 45 with a temple knight , I loved that game but there were just so many problems with it that made me hate the game, most of those problems were player made, like gold selling and botting...

I enjoy mmos when the next NCsoft mmo comes out I'll probably be playing it....
 
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Rob Williams

Editor-in-Chief
Staff member
Moderator
I'm not positive here, but I was quite certain that 75 was the level cap from the get-go. The only reason I believe this is due to the fact that I remember comparing the game to FFXI at the time of release, since both shared an identical cap (FFXI, for some reason, has never had its level cap increased). I do know that for C1, the cap was at least level 70, because there are official screenshots floating around showing that. However, I couldn't find information anywhere that stated the max level upon launch. I couldn't even find traces of level 75 being increased to max, just later patch notes that increased it from 75-78, then 78-80 then 80-85, I believe it is.

Either way, whatever the level cap was in the earlier days really doesn't matter, since people didn't hit 75 well into C2 from what I remember, and even when people did first hit 75, I don't believe anything above B Grade existed, which is kind of humorous. Nowadays, they have S80 weapons/armor and soon-to-be S82 and S84 once Gracia Final launches.

All the research I did to find out the level cap back in the day made me want to dig up some old screenshots, and so I did. I attached one I'm particularly fond of, only because I took it on the C2 test server and had two weapons... one that wasn't released until C3 and another that wasn't released until C4 (which was actually renamed once it became available).

Oh, and as for it taking the same amount of time to go from 70-80 as it does from 1-70, I'd almost be willing to bet that 1-75 and 75-80 is more accurate, based off some research a did not long ago. I've been goofing around on the current PTS for Gracia Final, where they begin you at level 83. It took me the equivelent of 14-16 dark blues (not sure if whites are soloable yet) to hit 0.01% of the level. At that rate, it would take a minimum of 140,000 of those same creatures to hit level 84. If L2 isn't a true grind at the high-end, I have no idea what is. That of course assumes no Raid bosses and the like, because that would help level faster, but still... the grind either way is intense.

What server did you used to play on? I've been goofing around in game a little bit lately off and on... it's been fun, but I've just been casually leveling a character. Haven't tried even visited any of the post C4 areas yet.
 

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Altrus

Coastermaker
I used to play on Devianne((I started playing a few days before that server was launched so when it did,I wanted to start on a completely new server so I created a character a few seconds after the server launched))

I have to say though, out of all the MMOs I've ever played I haven't enjoyed any of them nearly as much as Lineage 2. Everytime I see a new expansion coming out or I see some screenshots of it, I get the intense urge to start playing it again.

When their newest MMO Aion comes out in the US I'm defientily going to try playing to see if its any match for L2.


Something that I've never been able to understand about Lineage 2 is why its the only MMo I've seen with Castles and Sieges. This was....is one of my favorite aspects aabout
L2 and it just seems like a very good idea for a Medieval Fantasy game, but yet its the only one I know about.

.....awhhh....now I want to play again......
 
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Ben

Site Developer
Oh, and as for it taking the same amount of time to go from 70-80 as it does from 1-70, I'd almost be willing to bet that 1-75 and 75-80 is more accurate, based off some research a did not long ago. I've been goofing around on the current PTS for Gracia Final, where they begin you at level 83. It took me the equivelent of 14-16 dark blues (not sure if whites are soloable yet) to hit 0.01% of the level. At that rate, it would take a minimum of 140,000 of those same creatures to hit level 84. If L2 isn't a true grind at the high-end, I have no idea what is. That of course assumes no Raid bosses and the like, because that would help level faster, but still... the grind either way is intense.

And they introduced something called "vitality" which is basically a rest system where you gain up to 400% XP per kill. On the PTS you probably had level 4 vitality (400% increase), which means at level 0 vitality it would take 4 times longer. If you play every day, you use up your vitality in as little as 20 minutes. If you let it get to level 4 (which takes about 3-4 days), it lasts quite a bit longer, I'd say up to 2 hours depending on how fast your kill rate is. End game you pretty much have to be doing some form of AOE to kill multiple mobs at once, otherwise its an exercise in frustration.
 

Rob Williams

Editor-in-Chief
Staff member
Moderator
I don't know how I keep forgetting about this thread.

I know what you mean Altrus. Out of all the aspects of L2, I've generally enjoyed the game world and creatures the most. Whenever I think about the game, that's what I think about... not about all the XP'ing or grouping or whatever. L2 has a pretty unique game world, and it's pretty fun to explore (and dangerous sometimes).

Sieges do take place in other games, but I can't think of any right now. I -think- Warhammer had something like that, but I could be wrong. As for your earlier thought on botting, man, I can tell you, it sure hasn't gotten better. If anything, it's gotten worse. I find it rare to go to an area to hunt in the game and NOT see a botter, I'm damn serious. Even sadder, there's so much of it going on, that it actually feels accepted, but it's depressing when you see others skyrocketing past your level because of it. You're left behind because your legit, and that helps suck a LOT of fun out of the game, let me tell you.

Ben: Vitality, in my opinion, is the -best- thing to happen to this game in a while. It's still an unbelievable grind to level (especially 50+), but the system encourages alt character play, really. If you run out of Vit on one char, jump on another that has his/her full, and grind them until it's empty. There's a lot of people who don't like the Vit factor though, since apparently many people only play when it's full, and it's not hard to understand why. When your Vit bar is full, you earn 3x the normal XP, which lasts for about 20 minutes or so at full throttle hunting. Then at the next step down, I think it's like 2.5x, then at the second-last step, which lasts the longest (over two hours of straight hunting if you're lucky), it's 2x.

It's REALLY hard to want to level at 1x, when you know you can wait two days and be back up to 2x. Seriously. It really helps you clue into just how much of a grind the game can be, and how much better your days can be spent doing something else productive, haha.
 

Altrus

Coastermaker
Well, I'm not saying I do, but if I did I'd be playing the game with something called l2Hellion, not that I am of course, but if I did, I would, but I'm not. :p

If I was, it would be fun, but it isn't, cause I'm not.
 

Rob Williams

Editor-in-Chief
Staff member
Moderator
What's L2 Hellion, and what exactly are you referencing?

Oh, and since my last post, I actually did manage to find a few particular spots where bots aren't found, so I'm kind of impressed. The reason is simple... these areas are rather unsafe, especially solo, because of magic casters and the like. So even if you are 9 or 10 levels above the creatures there, chances are bots won't hunt there because they still have a real chance of dying. Rather, they go to hunting grounds where the risk of dying is minimal.

But if you're actually playing, you're smarter than a bot and know how to survive. It's also a win/win, because the two areas I found actually has the best XP for my level, so it works out well.

Here's a recent picture I have to share, because it's rather hilarious:



There are potions that randomly drop off of creatures called "Herb of Doubt", and it simply makes your head grow for four minutes. I didn't realize that the potion also effected your summon, but it certainly does. My Panther reminds me of Lord Dark Helmet, from the movie Spaceballs (pic).
 

Altrus

Coastermaker
Lets just say that I'm not playing on a private server *wink* *wink*

...also, is that the Wall of Argos area, in Goddard?
 
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