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Old 07-07-2007, 04:57 PM   #1
Rob Williams
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Default Buying a car from a different Country?

Hi all,

I plan to buy my first car in the spring, and am looking at my options. I live in Canada, and cars in the US are much cheaper, even after the conversion rate. Why they cost far more up north, I have no idea why, but it sucks. Generally, cars in Canada can cost upwards of 25% more than what they do in the US. Sometimes it's even more extreme. The base Corvette in the US retails for $41,000 for example, while in Canada, the same model is $68,000.

To make a long story short, I was wondering if anyone here had the experience of buying a car from another Country, and if the duty fees were asinine or not. Canada is the only one to have the SMART car (until next year), so if I can find someone who owns one of those in the US, they may be able to tell me.

Regardless, duty fees can be ridiculous, so I am cautious in these plans. I've ordered a $500 product from the US once, only to be charged $80 duty, and a family member ordered a $50 pair of shoes only to have a $45 duty charge.

At any rate, if anyone knows anything about this, I'd appreciate it! If anyone has an idea also of why canucks have to pay out the ass for the same car, I'd like to know that as well ;-)
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Old 07-07-2007, 05:36 PM   #2
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Move to Seattle or another boarder town on a temporary visa, buy a car, register said car there then move back. It should be cheaper than "importing" a car if it's registered in the US under your name first.
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Old 07-07-2007, 10:14 PM   #3
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There are smart cars all over the US as well, they look ridiculous parked next to a Chevy Tahoe or Ford Expedition.

Did you know the length of a smart car is about the same as the width of a normal vehicle and can therefore be parked perpendicular to the roadway in a parallel parking situation?

Keep in mind, taking a new vehicle out of the country in which you purchased it can void your warranty.

Not only do you have to take into account the original sticker price, and the dollar rate exchange, but you are going to pay taxes, licensing and registration for the state in which you purchase the car, then you will have to claim it at the border and pay BOTH the federal and the provincial taxes applicable for your province, plus the re-certification and re-registration, and re-licensing, not to mention there may also be additional fees levied at the border.

Your vehicle, eventhough new, will have to be inspected by a Canadian inspection station before you can get it licensed there, and it may not adhere to the stricter standards of emissions and other measures.

So why are cars more expensive in Canada?

Automakers have not adjusted their prices to reflect the strong Canadian dollar and the typical new vehicle now costs 17 per cent more in Canada than in the United States,

North American Big Three -- General Motors, Ford and DaimlerChrysler -- generally have much smaller Canada-U.S. price gaps than automakers based abroad. GM, Ford and Chrysler prices average $4,332 over American list prices for passenger cars and $3,639 for light trucks, compared with import-nameplate cross-border differences of $7,939 for cars and $6,432 for pickups, sport utility vehicles and minivans.

If car prices changed as often or as much as exchange rates do, thereíd be chaos in the car market. People would delay purchases hoping for a change in their favor. People who could buy a Honda Accord one year would find themselves able to afford only a Civic the next time around. And then maybe a BMW the time after that. Sales would go through huge, disruptive boom and bust cycles.

As a result, itís better for both manufacturers and consumers if car prices donít change nearly as often or as much as exchange rates do. This keeps demand stable, which reduces manufacturersí costs and thus car prices, and provides some guarantee that people with stable incomes can afford a similar car each time.

For the time being, because the dollar is very weak car prices in the U.S. are low. Manufacturers arenít overcharging outside the U.S. nearly so much as they are undercharging inside the U.S. It follows that, if the dollar continues to weaken, or simply stays where it is, car prices (and especially European car prices) will have to increase in the U.S.

All I can say is, buy used. Buying new is not the way to go for your first vehicle, as tempting as it may be. Let someone else feel the pain of the 20% loss of value as soon as it is driven off the lot. I scored a dealer demo vehicle for a little over half the original sticker price value and it only had 415 miles (668km) on it. Let the vehicle come to you, don't go looking for it too hard or it will elude you.

Good luck!
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Old 07-07-2007, 10:16 PM   #4
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Also found this:

Quote:

Vehicles Purchased in the U.S.A.
As a general rule, used cars that are at least 15 years old can be imported from the U.S.A. and are not subject to safety and emission equipment requirements. Age is not determined by model year; the month of importation must be at least 15 years after the month of manufacture of the vehicle.
If your vehicle is less than 15 years old and was manufactured for sale in the U.S., you must first determine whether it qualifies for importation. Transport Canada's Registrar of Imported Vehicles (RIV) program ensures that qualifying vehicles are modified, inspected and certified to meet Canadian safety standards. Upon arrival at Customs, a qualifying vehicle will be entered into the RIV program. The registration fee is $197 in Quebec and $182 in other provinces. Within 45 days, the vehicle must be altered at your expense to meet Transport Canada requirements (it may need daytime running lights and metric labels for instruments, for example). You won't be able to register and license the car in Canada until it is modified and inspected. The RIV Web site contains a list of eligible vehicles and detailed information about typical modification and inspection requirements.
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Old 07-07-2007, 10:21 PM   #5
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And this
http://www.mr2.com/TEXT/Import.html


The first thing you need to do is find out whether the car you're considering is even importable into Canada. Many cars destined for the US market do not meet Canadian safety standards (especially newer ones), and are therefore not importable at all. Note specifically that the person at the border was quite surprised that my MR2 was acceptable... it seems that many late model Toyotas do not qualify.

Transport Canada has an agreement with a private firm, Livingston International, which is now operating as the Registrar of Imported Vehicles , reachable at 1-888-848-8240. If you call them, and give them the year, make, and model of vehicle, they will tell you whether the car is legally allowed to be imported into Canada. Note that this list is also available on Transport Canada's web site, at the bottom of this page .
If the car is acceptable, you will also need the following paperwork:
-US Title to the vehicle
-Bill of sale/transfer of ownership

In addition, you will need a written notice from the manufacturer of the vehicle (NOT just a dealership) stating that any recalls that may be in effect have been performed on the car you're planning on importing.
You will need to contact US Customs at least 72 hours in advance, notifying them that you are exporting a vehicle from the US. Note that according to this document , it appears that you will need to provide US Customs with the original title (or a certified copy), and 2 additional complete copies of the title at least 72 hours in advance of export - due to this, I'd definitely recommend contacting them early on in the process, to make sure you have enough time to do this.

And, last but not least, the vehicle must still have the original stickers stating that it meets the Federal safety standards in effect on the date of manufacture.
Also note that if the car is newer than the 1990 model year, you will be expected to have the car retrofitted with the equivalent of the Canadian Daytime Running Light system. This procedure can be done after the car is in Canada, but you must have it completed and inspected within 45 days of importation.
Upon making my appointment for the Federal Inspection (see below), I was also told that you would have to have approved mounting points for a tether strap for a child car seat. This isn't mentioned anywhere in the documentation I received from Transport Canada, and luckily the inspection station decided to waive the requirement due to my MR2 being a 2-seater. Note that this quite possibly won't happen for you!
You will also need lots of money. :-) See the section below titled "Fees"

Insurance
To be able to pick up the vehicle and move it to the border, you will require some kind of insurance coverage. BC details follow... check with your local insurance company for details in your province.
In BC, ICBC will provide you with what is called a "Binder of insurance" (~$35/10 days for my car), which is strictly insurance coverage.. it is not a license to drive the vehicle on the road. You will also have to obtain a temporary permit from each state that you will be moving the car through. (In Washington, this is available from any Motor Vehicle licensing office. From my experience, $10US + local service fee (~$2.50) for a 3 day permit).
ICBC will not issue you a standard temporary BC permit until the car is physically present in BC, and you have the paperwork from the border stating that the car has been imported.
However, once you have crossed the border, you now need a temporary BC permit, and you are supposed to stop at the first ICBC agency you can find, and purchase one.

At the border
The first thing you will want to do is make sure you are at the correct border crossing... certain ports of entry are designated for the process of importing vehicles. Check with Customs before you arrive. (Note - based on updated information on Transport Canada's website, it seems there is no longer a surcharge for going to a 'non-designated' port. However, you'll probably find that the process will be a bit quicker/easier if you go to a designated port.
Upon arriving at the booth, explain to the Customs officer that you are planning on importing the vehicle. You'll be directed to park your car, and go inside to Customs.
The actual paperwork process has been privatized, and will be handled by a private brokerage company. (Incidentally, this also caused the fee to double.. hmmm). After the Customs agent has spoken to you initially, they will direct you there to have the paperwork completed. You will need the title, bill of sale, mileage, and the month and year of vehicle manufacture (NOT just the model year.. the actual date of manufacture. This should be found on a sticker on the driver's door jamb).
The brokerage company will check the paperwork, look up your vehicle to make sure it's on the approved list, and then give you a document to go back to Customs with.
Upon returning to Customs, they will also check the title and bill of sale, and take copies. You will then have to pay a variety of fees (detailed in "Fees", below), including Duty, GST, and possibly excise tax.
After this, your car is now legal to enter Canada! The process from this point depends on the province of entry, it's regulations, and your local insurance company. The process for BC is detailed below.

Fees
The following fees will be assessed at the border:
Note that all calculations are based on the Canadian value of the car. The Customs brochure states that the Canadian value will be based on a commonly approved value, such as the Kelly Blue Book. This means that even if you got an amazing deal on the price, you may still be paying tax based on the average Canadian value of the car. (This isn't what happened to me, see "My experience", below)

Paperwork at brokerage: $182.00 (includes GST), or $197 in Quebec (incl. GST/QST)
Duty 6.1% (see below)
At this point in time (2002), vehicles manufactured outside Canada, the US, or Mexico are assessed duty at the rate of 6.1% (down 1.9% from when this article was originally written). Current (2002) duty on vehicles built in Mexico is 0.03%, and there is no duty assessed on US or Canadian built vehicles. As always, check with Canada Customs for the current rates. You can reach their automated information service at 1-800-461-9999, or from outside Canada, at (204) 983-3500, or (506) 636-5064.


Excise Tax $100.00

Note that you may need to pay an additional excise tax if your vehicle weighs over 2007KG, or 2268KG if it is a station wagon, van, or SUV. Contact Canada Customs for details.

GST 7.0%
This is calculated on the Canadian value plus the excise fee, if applicable

After you've paid all of this, you've now got a Canadian car! (Subject to inspection).
Note: You may still have to pay PST or other fees to your provincial government. If you are in BC, you will have to pay PST when you register/insure the vehicle.
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Old 07-07-2007, 10:21 PM   #6
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continued...

Registering your new vehicle
The process described here is only for BC residents... you will have to contact your local insurance agent/tax office if you're not a BC resident.
In BC, after you have the paperwork from the border stating that you have paid the fees and that the car has been admitted, you must have the vehicle inspected before you are able to insure it. This inspection is called a PVIP, and must be done at an ICBC approved inspection facility. The list of approved shops/dealers/inspection centers in your area is available from your local ICBC agent.
NOTE: The fee charged for this inspection is not fixed... I was informed by my ICBC agent that it can vary from ~$50-$250, depending on where you go. CALL AROUND for rates!
The inspection is fairly thorough, although mostly visual. They will road test your car, as well as inspect all safety and emissions equipment (note that this test does not count as a pass of AirCare), check for body and undercarriage damage, inspect the brakes, tires, etc, and many other things.
Generally, at most inspection stations, if you fail the initial test for some reason, you can have the cause repaired, and then bring the vehicle back for one free retest. Inquire to see if this is the case wherever you go.
After passing this exam, you can now insure the vehicle. The ICBC agent will require the Title and bill of sale/transfer of ownership (which they will keep! Ask for copies), as well as the inspection report. They are also required to perform a visual inspection of the vehicle, to make sure the VIN matches all the paperwork, so you will have to bring the car to the agent. Also note that not all agencies will perform this inspection at all times, due to limited staff. Check before you arrive.
At this point you will have to pay the PST due, as well as your insurance fee for whatever period of time you choose. After that, they'll hand you a set of plates, and you're off! Congrats!

Federal Inspection
Shortly after bringing the car across the border, you will receive a notice from the Registrar of Imported Vehicles , noting that you've recently imported a vehicle into the country, and detailing the fact that you will have to take it through a Federal inspection before final approval is given to the vehicle. Note that this is a different inspection from the one in the above section, and unlike the provincial inspection, this is required no matter where in Canada you are.
You will receive a letter detailing the date you will need to have the inspection completed by, a list of inspection centers in your area, and a form detailing the requirements you have to meet. Note that at this time (current as of July 3/2002) they have contracted with Canadian Tire to perform the Federal inspections, which means you should be able to have the inspection performed at almost any Canadian Tire across Canada. You can go here to search for a location.
During this inspection is where you'll have to have the recall notice from the manufacturer of the car, the correct emissions/safety standards stickers, proof of having the proper anchorages for a child car seat, and show compliance with DRL laws, if applicable to your year of vehicle. You will also need the paperwork that you received from the brokerage at the border.
If you pass this inspection, Transport Canada will mail you an approval sticker that you will have to put on your copy of the paperwork you received at the border, as well as French versions of some of the safety stickers in your car, and a sticker for your odometer stating that it is in miles.
The good news is that 1) it's a very short inspection (in my experience), and 2) it's free... it's covered by the fee you paid at the border.

My experience
The above is how the process is supposed to work, according to Canada Customs, Transport Canada, and ICBC. This is what happened in my experience.
I picked up my car just south of Seattle, after first purchasing a 3 day permit from a MV Licensing office in Washington. I proceeded to drive to the Douglas border crossing (Peach Arch), where I was informed by the Customs Officer at the booth that I was actually at the wrong crossing (see my note above in "At the border" re:approved points of entry). They allowed me to change my mind and proceed to the other crossing, but note that you will not be allowed to proceed through Canada to the other border crossing.. I had to turn around, cross back into the US, and then go to the other border crossing.
Upon reaching the correct border crossing, I waited in a long line just to be told that I'd have to go to the brokerage office first for the paperwork. This ended up being a rather lengthy form that requires the name and address of the seller and purchaser, some declarations about the condition of the vehicle, and the mileage and date of manufacture. After checking to make sure the vehicle was on the approved list, they took the fee, stamped the paperwork, and back to Customs I went.
After another wait in line, the officer requested the form from the brokerage, as well as the title and bill of sale/transfer of ownership. He inspected those and took copies, asked if the car had air conditioning, and then informed me of my total charges owing. (Note that if you want to know how it breaks down, ask now, not at the cash register, as they can't tell you there). I paid my money, and I was free to go!
Note that at no time did anyone at the border actually do so much as look at the car.. I could have been importing a semi-trailer, and they wouldn't have known. They also never requested the statement re:recalls, although after I offered it, the Customs agent did inspect it.
Also, the people at Customs had no problem with my driving the car with just the Washington State temporary permit (and neither did the police officer who followed me very closely 2 days later, although he inspected it pretty thoroughly , so I decided to do that and save myself a few days worth of temporary permit charges in BC. (Note that if you have a binder of insurance in effect on the car already, ICBC will only charge you the licensing fee for a temporary permit.. currently $3/day, min $10).
I then made an appointment for the PVIP, and took my car in for the inspection a few days later. Surprisingly, the only thing that failed was the back brakes (pads were too worn), so I ended up getting the fastest brake job in history, (the guy at the BCAA inspection station agreed to hold the report without marking it as failed as long as I could make it back the same day.. this at ~1:30 in the afternoon , brought it back, picked up my passed inspection report, and insured the car. :-)
At the ICBC agent, they requested copies of:
The title to the car (which they keep)
The transfer of ownership (ditto)
The paperwork from the border
The inspection report from the PVIP inspection
Lots of money. ;-)

After that, they cheerfully handed me a set of plates and an insurance sticker, and I was off.
Note... one thing I'm still trying to figure out after reading the papers about the Federal inspection is whether they were supposed to insure the car before the Federal inspection was complete... parts of the text hint that this shouldn't be possible, but it doesn't come out and say it anywhere, and I didn't have any problems.
The Federal inspection consisted of calling one of the locations on the list provided, and trying to make an appointment. I basically got told "it only takes a few minutes, just drop in during working hours". I did exactly that, and basically dumped a copy of every piece of paper I'd gotten so far on their desk. They looked at the notice of recall, the receipt I'd gotten from a shop for the DRLs, and at the safety compliance stickers on the car, and that was it. The paperwork was stamped, I was told I'd be receiving a sticker to add to it from the government in the mail, and the process was finally complete!

Here are some links for more research.
http://www.autonet.ca/UsedCars/HowToImportAUsedCar.cfm
Registrar of Imported Vehicles
Transport Canada's list of approved vehicles
Canadian Tire locations search
US Customs
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Old 07-07-2007, 10:44 PM   #7
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I'm quite certain you cleared up any doubts I had. It's just not worth the time and hassle to worry about getting a car at a lower price from the US. I did hear about some MR2s not being allowed to come into Canada. Too bad, they are great cars. They look more like a Porsche than a Toyota.

SMART cars are not yet for sale in the US. Most who own them would have gotten them in Canada. I forget the reason why they were not sold in America as they were in Canada, but they will be available in the US next model year. That aside, those cars are laughable. I've never heard of an owner who've been unhappy with the car, though.

I might take the advice of not buying new. I want a car more for fun than for necessity, so I'm targeting a certain make/model. Being a first purchase though, used might make more sense to get a model a few years old...

Thanks for all that info, that's incredibly useful.
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Old 07-09-2007, 05:35 AM   #8
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I remember reading somewhere that the lack of weight was a concern about the SMART cars here in America...

You may have just read that and are now thinking WTH? Read it again and then read below.

Two cars heading in the opposite direction at equal speeds of 20 miles per hour on the same path collide, one was a SMART car, on was a 1980 Dodge something or other... Who just got killed?

A Smart car is behind a Chevy Tahoe at an intersection and the same 1980 Dodge something or another from the problem above is going 20 while drunk approaching the SMART car from behind... They only get to 15 miles per hour before rear ending the SMART car... who most likely just got severely injured?

When you take a small, lightweight, fragile mass and put it in any physics equation against something of a larger, heavy, and more rigid a mass, the lighter of the two crumples. While SMART cars are a great idea... one of them in an accident is, in America, at this time, not a great idea.

I don't know what the averages are in Texas any more but I'd say more ppl still drive trucks and large SUV's down here than do car light enough for the SMART car to survive an impact over 15-20mph (yeah... I'm serious)

That is one possible reason we do not have them yet.
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Old 07-09-2007, 09:57 AM   #9
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Well, I'd have to say you're wrong when it comes to increased danger in SMART cars. It is well documented with crash testing that they are no more dangerous than most mid sized cars. THere is no reported increase in injuries. I have seen crash videos and they fair quite well in accidents. Any car that picks a fight with a Semi is going to lose. In my town, a Volkswagon Jetta and a Chevy picjup truck both went head on with Semi's in 2 different accidents and hte Jetta driver died instantly while hte P/U drive got seriously injured. Sure the SMART car driver would certainly perish in such an accident, but in "normal" accidents, you aren't any more likely to die.

As for importinga car, VERY expensive. When I moved to Canada 3 years ago with my wife, we brought a car from the US that she already owned and it still cost us about $1k to import it. ANd that is for a 1995 Olds Cutlass Ciera. There are ALOT of cars not allowed in Canada and you have to modify most to conform to Canada's laws. Cars are more $$$ here, but hte resale is also much higher. Not worth the savings if you as me.
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Old 07-09-2007, 12:38 PM   #10
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Damn, $1,000 on a ten year old car? That's harsh. I've decided to just buy in Canada... I don't want to risk anything. Chances are I will still buy new, but if I happen to want to buy used I will look into things deeper, or find if it there is an estimator somewhere that will predict what duty will be. I know my aunt bought a $15K trailer thing from the US last year... I should really ask her what the duty was. Of course, I am sure duty is different in different price brackets.

What a pain in the ass.
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Old 07-09-2007, 05:39 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by b1lk1 View Post
Well, I'd have to say you're wrong when it comes to increased danger in SMART cars. It is well documented with crash testing that they are no more dangerous than most mid sized cars. THere is no reported increase in injuries. I have seen crash videos and they fair quite well in accidents. Any car that picks a fight with a Semi is going to lose. In my town, a Volkswagon Jetta and a Chevy picjup truck both went head on with Semi's in 2 different accidents and hte Jetta driver died instantly while hte P/U drive got seriously injured. Sure the SMART car driver would certainly perish in such an accident, but in "normal" accidents, you aren't any more likely to die.
Hummer: 6,400 lbs http://www.usatoday.com/money/perfi/...2-06-14-h2.htm

SMART car possible stats... 1588 lbs
http://escapees.infopop.cc/eve/forum...sl/print_topic

The Mercedes S class mentioned below is ~3200

SMART car test... (THIS IS AGAINST SOMETHING stationary... and it hit at a slight angle. Not head on.) http://www.metacafe.com/watch/60538/smart_car_crash/

After seeing that vid i was semi impressed. But there are still safety concerns.

SMART vs Mercedes
http://www.leftlanenews.com/video-me...-vs-smart.html

That mercedes stopped at impact... I would have liked to have seen both cars attempt to keep going as is usually the case. That Mercedes out weighs the smart car by a bit... So not only should it have tossed it like it did, it should have kept going through it. Keep in mine... mercedes = less weight than an H2, has a lower impact (id love to see a hummer go over one of these things like a monster truck tbh) and this one stopped. This was also not a head on collision. Nor was it a side.

Not to mention the H2 could pull nearly 8-9 of those things with its towing capacity... The thing wouldn't just run through it, it would push the car and the carcases inside it as far as it wanted to.

Edit:

It is interesting to think that if you take the static friction of the tires on the road out of the way (the hummer has more of that anyways) The SMART car would have to travel just over 4 times as fast as the H2 just to match momentum.

6400 x 40Mph = 256,000 Pounds/Mph

256,000/1588lbs = ~161.2Mph

Im not sure what the top speed on the smart car is... but yeah... Either way the hummer would probably take even that collision better comparatively.

edit 2:

Something else to consider are the use of trailer hitches... I cannot begin to tell you how many times someone has rear ended me or my dad only to hit that thing and have their bumpers/part of the car crumple. That roll cage on the SMART car is nice... but how well would it hold up to that?
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Old 07-09-2007, 05:59 PM   #12
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Personally I wouldn't want to buy a new car from the US, but an old car from a place like Arizona. I'd love to get my hands on a rust-free sweet ride to fix up. Save zillions on expensive rust repair.

As for smart cars, there's one that commutes two hours every day at over 100km/hr. As for safety, people ride motorcycles and aren't called idiots. At least the smart car driver stays dry in the rain.
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Old 07-09-2007, 06:11 PM   #13
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Id say the diff there is that ppl accept a certain amount of risk while ridding a bike... Many a man is there that has had long a talk with his girl about the dangers of the bike and how the girl should get over it.

With the smart car though... ppl think that they are safe, and they are not.

Side note... 100km/hr = ~62.1369949495Mph... They miss that 161Mph mark by a lil bit.

For that matter if the max speed on it is in the low 60's... Driving one in Texas on a highway might not be safe.

55-60 in town and 70-75 out of town. Most ppl drive 5-15 over the speed limit.
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Old 07-09-2007, 06:37 PM   #14
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[rant]

A Hummer would demolish a full size car, never mind a Smart car. Smart cars are meant for local commuting as well, not for extensive highway use. Depending on what you hit and how you hit it, you could die in ANY vehicle. What I am really saying is that a Smart car is not a whole lot more dangerous than any sub compact car, like the Kia's, Hyundai's Chevy Aveo and so on. The real problem is that we need to start ripping these monster SUV's and oversize sedans off the road since they do nothing but pollute and are rolling killing machines. PLUS, cars should be limited to no more than 75MPH and 100HP since noone needs to go 0-60 in 6 seconds or pull 10,00lbs. For those that need the power and capacity, that is fine, but considering 90% of all pickups/SUV's are driven by people that never even tow or load them, they are just wrong.

[/end rant]
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Old 07-09-2007, 09:47 PM   #15
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As someone who drives one of those oversize SUV's with a purpose... I say nay.

It is used for more than recreation. And yeah, it is used for recreation.

Yes... it pollutes, and yeah it pollutes while i'm going camping or something too.

The speed limit on most Texas highways is 70-75... It can still take more than a day to cross it... In a car no less. Slowing that down isn't an option. And why you want to take away my right to a fast car I cant understand. I enjoy taking my car out at night and punching it from a stop... And yeah I enjoy going faster than that 75-100... But guess what, I DONT DO IT DURING RUSH HOUR OR NEAR PEOPLE. Making me wear a seat belt was bad enough, what i do with my life is my choice.

Yes, I do need to pull near 10,000... though most of the time when that needs to be done we hire out. That doesn't mean I don't pull 7000 though.

Now as for the last part... OMG I agree with you... 50 year old women do not need to be driving a full sized pickup or SUV. Minivan mom and dads dont need to be either, but it a status thing. And I will be a gun toting maniac if you make people like me who need all of the above mentioned register in order to be able to have it. I have to pay enough as is to be able to do these things, you know... in gas prices alone. So it will be a cold day in hell before i pay a $100 annual fee to be able to do these things... and lets not kid ourselves; In order to be effective such a thing would have to cost $100+ a year. Oh and I'd have to have the thing probably inspected twice a year... F that.
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