Tagan TG1100-U95 1100W Power Supply

Rob Williams · 12-17-2006, 06:30 PM

There are a handful of 8800GTX certified power supplies, today we take a look at one that's been hit with a bit of controversy recently and see if there's more to it than certain people think there is.

You can read the full review right here and discuss it here.

liqnit · 12-18-2006, 10:55 AM

Great looking case!!
But after reading the review i think it is the best feature there...

Tech-Daddy · 12-18-2006, 02:27 PM

So... if I am reading this correctly, you would hook up PCI-e 1 and 3 to one card, and 2 and 4 to another card?
Is that correct?

How do you know "which" connector is on "which" rail?

madmat · 12-18-2006, 07:43 PM

I have ways of making zem speak...1 & 3 are on one rail and 2 & 4 are on another so they're cool to hook up together. Don't get me wrong, a 6 is still a good score but it needs things like complete documentation, normal sleeving and a single big, quiet fan to get it pushed up to an 8.

01-17-2007, 05:21 AM

Hi. Just how bad was the ripple voltage with all four PCIe 12V combined? Did you get a measurement?

madmat · 01-17-2007, 07:50 AM

It was about 80mV at full load with a strangely oscillating waveform. If you're considering combining rails on one I'd really advise against it.

The ripple on each rail at 20A per rail was a rather clean 40-50mV which is well under spec and there was no oscillation in the waveform either.

What exactly are you wanting to do? Run an 8800GTX SLI setup? If so just run PCI-e 1 & 3 to one card and 2 & 4 to the other and that'll keep everything on its own rail.

01-17-2007, 12:34 PM

Thanks for quick response!

Actually this is a non-PC application. Its to power a server blade which needs up to 80A. There are some single 12V rail PSUs, such as the Silverstone OP1000 and Power & Cooling 1KW-SR. I think I look at those.

Thanks

Rob Williams · 01-17-2007, 02:01 PM

Here is a question for Matt. We talked to Tagan at CES, and they showed us a similar model to this, except it had a switch on that back that could toggle between 5 separate +12v rails or 1 80a +12v rail.

Now generally, I thougt that there was no real such thing as "separate" rails, instead there is one +12v always, that just happens to split off into separate areas. If that's the case, then what good does this "switch" do?

I wish I could explain better, but I am just going by what he told me.

Jakal · 01-18-2007, 07:55 PM

Sounds like they've incorporated a switchable transformer.

Transformers change AC to DC by the expanding and collapsing magnetic fields passing through a coil of wire. The "movement" of these magnetic fields produce a current upon the wire. Transformers are the most energy efficient devices man created, with a power factor of ~95% or better. If you were to take a transformer with a 1:10 ratio, 120V AC - 12V DC, you maintain the same voltage, but the current available has increased. If you're on a 30 Amp breaker then available DC current would be 10 times that, or 300 Amps. In that specific psu application you talked about, the transformer must have a maximum amperage rating of 80 Amps.

You can then go back and regulate the amperage rating for the 12V a few different ways. The simplest method would be a set of resistors that reduce the output current. Someone's using their head and applying Ohm's Law to the output of a power supply. I = V/R , or Current (I) = Voltage (V) / Resistance (R). Some simple Algebra leads to: V = IR, and R = V/I.

Resistors in parallel reduce current output, but not voltage. So, I'll demonstrate with a couple figures I've compiled, starting with a 40 Amp rating. Input will always be 12 volts at 80 amps, and using resistors is the simplest/cheapest method.

Reduction by 40A still maintains a 40A output.
12v / 40A = .3 ohms : Output of 12v @ 40A
12v / 30A = .4 : Output of 12v @ 50A
12v / 20A = .6 : Output of 12v @ 60A
12v / 10A = 1.2 : Output of 12v @ 70
12v / 0A = 0 or a direct output from rectifier/cap 12v @ 80A

As you can see, by including a switch to choose between output resistance, you can vary the output current. This can also be done with a single potentiometer, or rheostat. Similar to the voltage control on a dc fan, it varies the resistance to the load.

"So why don't companies produce higher amp power supplies?"

Well, to support the higher amperage ratings, it would require larger, higher rated, components, and heavier gauge wire. These components make for a larger psu, as well as, increasing the price.

Now that I've thought about how that could work, I'm slightly surprised this hasn't been introduced earlier. Use a larger transformer, and allow switchable amp ratings. I've seen the same application in power amps and such through school, but never applied it when thinking about power supplies. Quite nice indeed.

madmat · 01-20-2007, 11:00 PM

Most power supplies have one transformer that feeds out to the various rails via OCP (over current protection) per virtual rail, In the case of the 1100 I reviewed it has two transformers that fead two rails each which is why the ripple was so strange.

I'm guessing the switch turns the OCP on and off.

Rob Williams · 01-21-2007, 12:34 AM

Thanks for the detailed explanation Jakal, that will require me to re-read when I'm not buzzed. Thanks also Matt, it makes more sense to me now. The Tagan rep was talking so fast, I didn't get to comprehend it that well, heh.

TonyM16 · 01-27-2007, 07:35 AM

Hi I have a tagan 1100 watt . At first I also had my pciX cables connected to my 8800gtx sli like 1+2 and 3+4. I didn't notice anything strange, but ofcourse I have now changed it.

My question is if each rail has a max of 20amps will connecting two pciX cables on the same rail be any better than just connecting one? So if all I can get is 20amps on that rail, why do I need two cables? Will 20amps even be enough for one 8800gtx. It's more likely 16amps as no psu is 100% effecient. Why didn't they have one pciX cable on each of it's four rails. that makes more sense to me as then you can have more than 20amps going to each card.

I am very confused about this. Can someone explain all this to me please? Am I going to have enough amperage to have stable 8800gtx sli even if I overclock them? Is there anyway to use the Tagan so that I can get more thab 20amps on each card?

Thank you.

PS. What is this 25c thing all about? What will happen to my psu when it get to 50c? Will it crap out or something, or does it just mean that it will have alot less power at 50c, but how much less? Did you test that? What if I had a really good case that keeps things cool? Will i be able to stay below 50c then?

EDIT: I just quickly checke the spec of my 8800gtx and I have found that one of these bad boys needs a 450watt psu witha 30amp 12v current. SO for sli I would need 2x 450watt and 2x 30amps. That means I don't have enough power!!. My 12v rail is only 900watt and probably 750watt after the waste. My amps per rail is only 2x20amp or more like 16x2 after waste. What should I do, there is no psu out there tha even has 30amps per rail except the uber expensive PCP+C 1kw-sr or the Silverstoen Op1000. I can't get those where I am though. WHat do I do?

madmat · 01-28-2007, 05:20 AM

My god...calm down a bit. The ENTIRE SYSTEM requires a 450W PSU with 30A on the 12V rail. That's shared amongst the CPU, drives, fans, mobo, water pump if there is one and everything else plus the GPU so having 4-20A rails is more than enough. Take a Prozac and relax a bit. The 8800GTX uses at most 13A on DX9 and maybe, just possibly will require 18A on DX10 so quit panicking, you have more than enough power to run your system. You'll have 40A (20A X 2) shared amongst your 8800GTX SLI cards and another 40A for everything else. A $10,000 super duty home PC with dual dualcore CPU's and SLI 8800GTX's won't even touch that amount of power so don't freak out, you're well covered.

TonyM16 · 01-28-2007, 07:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by madmat

My god...calm down a bit. The ENTIRE SYSTEM requires a 450W PSU with 30A on the 12V rail. That's shared amongst the CPU, drives, fans, mobo, water pump if there is one and everything else plus the GPU so having 4-20A rails is more than enough. Take a Prozac and relax a bit. The 8800GTX uses at most 13A on DX9 and maybe, just possibly will require 18A on DX10 so quit panicking, you have more than enough power to run your system. You'll have 40A (20A X 2) shared amongst your 8800GTX SLI cards and another 40A for everything else. A $10,000 super duty home PC with dual dualcore CPU's and SLI 8800GTX's won't even touch that amount of power so don't freak out, you're well covered.

Yeah you're right, after rereading my post it was a bit OTT. Sorry about that. Thanks for clearing it all up though.

PS I think you mean Valium , not Prozac

madmat · 01-28-2007, 07:44 AM

Prozac is for anxiety attacks which it looked like you were having. Valium is too but it's a bit debilitating so I suggest Prozac over it

But yeah, you're fine with the Tagan, it's not a bad unit as long as you avoid cross connecting the 12V lines.

12-17-2006, 06:30 PM	#1
Rob Williams Editor-in-Chief Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Atlantic Canada Posts: 13,231	Tagan TG1100-U95 1100W Power Supply There are a handful of 8800GTX certified power supplies, today we take a look at one that's been hit with a bit of controversy recently and see if there's more to it than certain people think there is. You can read the full review right here and discuss it here. __________________ Intel Core i7-990X EE @ 3.43GHz, GIGABYTE X58A-UD5, Kingston 12GB DDR3-1333, NVIDIA GeForce GTX 680 2GB Kingston HyperX 3K 240GB SSD, WD VR 1TB, WD 2TB, Seagate 2TB, LG BD-ROM, ASUS DVD-RW, Corsair 1000HX, Corsair H60 Cooler Corsair 800D, Dell 2408WFP 24", ASUS Xonar Essence STX, Gentoo (KDE 4.10, 3.7 Kernel) "Take care to get what you like, or you will be forced to like what you get!" - H.P. Baxxter <Toad772> I don't always drink alcohol, but when I do, I take it too far.

12-18-2006, 10:55 AM	#2
liqnit Coastermaker Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 119	Great looking case!! But after reading the review i think it is the best feature there... __________________ My Blog

12-18-2006, 02:27 PM	#3
Tech-Daddy Tech Monkey Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Plano, Texas USA Posts: 663	So... if I am reading this correctly, you would hook up PCI-e 1 and 3 to one card, and 2 and 4 to another card? Is that correct? How do you know "which" connector is on "which" rail? __________________ blingGreen \| Lupine \| BOSS:FX-57 \| DSF (Dallas Stars Foundation) \| Deuce \| DST (Dallas Stars Tribute) Currently working on : Sleeper

12-18-2006, 07:43 PM	#4
madmat Soup Nazi Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: No soup for you! Posts: 1,636	I have ways of making zem speak...1 & 3 are on one rail and 2 & 4 are on another so they're cool to hook up together. Don't get me wrong, a 6 is still a good score but it needs things like complete documentation, normal sleeving and a single big, quiet fan to get it pushed up to an 8. __________________ M4N82 Deluxe Phenom II 940 Black Edition quad core @ 3.5Ghz 2x1 gig OCZ PC26400 Platinum, 2x1gig GSkill PC26400 EVGA GTX260 Buncha drives, Some other stuff, Even more stuff, If the automobile had followed the same development cycle as the computer, a Rolls-Royce would today cost $100, get a million miles per gallon, and explode once a year, killing everyone inside. --Robert X. Cringely, InfoWorld magazine Sign Me! Last edited by madmat; 12-18-2006 at 07:46 PM.

01-17-2007, 05:21 AM	#5
pad6000 Guest Poster Posts: n/a	TG1100-U95 ripple Hi. Just how bad was the ripple voltage with all four PCIe 12V combined? Did you get a measurement?

01-17-2007, 07:50 AM	#6
madmat Soup Nazi Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: No soup for you! Posts: 1,636	It was about 80mV at full load with a strangely oscillating waveform. If you're considering combining rails on one I'd really advise against it. The ripple on each rail at 20A per rail was a rather clean 40-50mV which is well under spec and there was no oscillation in the waveform either. What exactly are you wanting to do? Run an 8800GTX SLI setup? If so just run PCI-e 1 & 3 to one card and 2 & 4 to the other and that'll keep everything on its own rail. __________________ M4N82 Deluxe Phenom II 940 Black Edition quad core @ 3.5Ghz 2x1 gig OCZ PC26400 Platinum, 2x1gig GSkill PC26400 EVGA GTX260 Buncha drives, Some other stuff, Even more stuff, If the automobile had followed the same development cycle as the computer, a Rolls-Royce would today cost $100, get a million miles per gallon, and explode once a year, killing everyone inside. --Robert X. Cringely, InfoWorld magazine Sign Me!

01-17-2007, 12:34 PM	#7
pad6000 Guest Poster Posts: n/a	Thanks for quick response! Actually this is a non-PC application. Its to power a server blade which needs up to 80A. There are some single 12V rail PSUs, such as the Silverstone OP1000 and Power & Cooling 1KW-SR. I think I look at those. Thanks

01-17-2007, 02:01 PM	#8
Rob Williams Editor-in-Chief Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Atlantic Canada Posts: 13,231	Here is a question for Matt. We talked to Tagan at CES, and they showed us a similar model to this, except it had a switch on that back that could toggle between 5 separate +12v rails or 1 80a +12v rail. Now generally, I thougt that there was no real such thing as "separate" rails, instead there is one +12v always, that just happens to split off into separate areas. If that's the case, then what good does this "switch" do? I wish I could explain better, but I am just going by what he told me. __________________ Intel Core i7-990X EE @ 3.43GHz, GIGABYTE X58A-UD5, Kingston 12GB DDR3-1333, NVIDIA GeForce GTX 680 2GB Kingston HyperX 3K 240GB SSD, WD VR 1TB, WD 2TB, Seagate 2TB, LG BD-ROM, ASUS DVD-RW, Corsair 1000HX, Corsair H60 Cooler Corsair 800D, Dell 2408WFP 24", ASUS Xonar Essence STX, Gentoo (KDE 4.10, 3.7 Kernel) "Take care to get what you like, or you will be forced to like what you get!" - H.P. Baxxter <Toad772> I don't always drink alcohol, but when I do, I take it too far.

01-18-2007, 07:55 PM	#9
Jakal Tech Monkey Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Missiskippy Posts: 634	Sounds like they've incorporated a switchable transformer. Transformers change AC to DC by the expanding and collapsing magnetic fields passing through a coil of wire. The "movement" of these magnetic fields produce a current upon the wire. Transformers are the most energy efficient devices man created, with a power factor of ~95% or better. If you were to take a transformer with a 1:10 ratio, 120V AC - 12V DC, you maintain the same voltage, but the current available has increased. If you're on a 30 Amp breaker then available DC current would be 10 times that, or 300 Amps. In that specific psu application you talked about, the transformer must have a maximum amperage rating of 80 Amps. You can then go back and regulate the amperage rating for the 12V a few different ways. The simplest method would be a set of resistors that reduce the output current. Someone's using their head and applying Ohm's Law to the output of a power supply. I = V/R , or Current (I) = Voltage (V) / Resistance (R). Some simple Algebra leads to: V = IR, and R = V/I. Resistors in parallel reduce current output, but not voltage. So, I'll demonstrate with a couple figures I've compiled, starting with a 40 Amp rating. Input will always be 12 volts at 80 amps, and using resistors is the simplest/cheapest method. Reduction by 40A still maintains a 40A output. 12v / 40A = .3 ohms : Output of 12v @ 40A 12v / 30A = .4 : Output of 12v @ 50A 12v / 20A = .6 : Output of 12v @ 60A 12v / 10A = 1.2 : Output of 12v @ 70 12v / 0A = 0 or a direct output from rectifier/cap 12v @ 80A As you can see, by including a switch to choose between output resistance, you can vary the output current. This can also be done with a single potentiometer, or rheostat. Similar to the voltage control on a dc fan, it varies the resistance to the load. "So why don't companies produce higher amp power supplies?" Well, to support the higher amperage ratings, it would require larger, higher rated, components, and heavier gauge wire. These components make for a larger psu, as well as, increasing the price. Now that I've thought about how that could work, I'm slightly surprised this hasn't been introduced earlier. Use a larger transformer, and allow switchable amp ratings. I've seen the same application in power amps and such through school, but never applied it when thinking about power supplies. Quite nice indeed. __________________ Intel C2Quad Q9400 @3.6Ghz \| Asus PM5Q Deluxe \| OCZ Reaper HPC PC2-8500 8GB \| XFX Black Edition 260/216\| knobs are great for twisting, turning, squeezing and pulling... especially your own..... that's how doors open \| Chaos Havok: grrrr im lagging me \| <@Deathspawner> I wish I was in Windows :-/ Last edited by Jakal; 01-18-2007 at 08:26 PM.

01-20-2007, 11:00 PM	#10
madmat Soup Nazi Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: No soup for you! Posts: 1,636	Most power supplies have one transformer that feeds out to the various rails via OCP (over current protection) per virtual rail, In the case of the 1100 I reviewed it has two transformers that fead two rails each which is why the ripple was so strange. I'm guessing the switch turns the OCP on and off. __________________ M4N82 Deluxe Phenom II 940 Black Edition quad core @ 3.5Ghz 2x1 gig OCZ PC26400 Platinum, 2x1gig GSkill PC26400 EVGA GTX260 Buncha drives, Some other stuff, Even more stuff, If the automobile had followed the same development cycle as the computer, a Rolls-Royce would today cost $100, get a million miles per gallon, and explode once a year, killing everyone inside. --Robert X. Cringely, InfoWorld magazine Sign Me!

01-21-2007, 12:34 AM	#11
Rob Williams Editor-in-Chief Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Atlantic Canada Posts: 13,231	Thanks for the detailed explanation Jakal, that will require me to re-read when I'm not buzzed. Thanks also Matt, it makes more sense to me now. The Tagan rep was talking so fast, I didn't get to comprehend it that well, heh. __________________ Intel Core i7-990X EE @ 3.43GHz, GIGABYTE X58A-UD5, Kingston 12GB DDR3-1333, NVIDIA GeForce GTX 680 2GB Kingston HyperX 3K 240GB SSD, WD VR 1TB, WD 2TB, Seagate 2TB, LG BD-ROM, ASUS DVD-RW, Corsair 1000HX, Corsair H60 Cooler Corsair 800D, Dell 2408WFP 24", ASUS Xonar Essence STX, Gentoo (KDE 4.10, 3.7 Kernel) "Take care to get what you like, or you will be forced to like what you get!" - H.P. Baxxter <Toad772> I don't always drink alcohol, but when I do, I take it too far.

01-27-2007, 07:35 AM	#12
TonyM16 Obliviot Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 2	Hi I have a tagan 1100 watt . At first I also had my pciX cables connected to my 8800gtx sli like 1+2 and 3+4. I didn't notice anything strange, but ofcourse I have now changed it. My question is if each rail has a max of 20amps will connecting two pciX cables on the same rail be any better than just connecting one? So if all I can get is 20amps on that rail, why do I need two cables? Will 20amps even be enough for one 8800gtx. It's more likely 16amps as no psu is 100% effecient. Why didn't they have one pciX cable on each of it's four rails. that makes more sense to me as then you can have more than 20amps going to each card. I am very confused about this. Can someone explain all this to me please? Am I going to have enough amperage to have stable 8800gtx sli even if I overclock them? Is there anyway to use the Tagan so that I can get more thab 20amps on each card? Thank you. PS. What is this 25c thing all about? What will happen to my psu when it get to 50c? Will it crap out or something, or does it just mean that it will have alot less power at 50c, but how much less? Did you test that? What if I had a really good case that keeps things cool? Will i be able to stay below 50c then? EDIT: I just quickly checke the spec of my 8800gtx and I have found that one of these bad boys needs a 450watt psu witha 30amp 12v current. SO for sli I would need 2x 450watt and 2x 30amps. That means I don't have enough power!!. My 12v rail is only 900watt and probably 750watt after the waste. My amps per rail is only 2x20amp or more like 16x2 after waste. What should I do, there is no psu out there tha even has 30amps per rail except the uber expensive PCP+C 1kw-sr or the Silverstoen Op1000. I can't get those where I am though. WHat do I do? Last edited by TonyM16; 01-27-2007 at 07:46 AM.

01-28-2007, 05:20 AM	#13
madmat Soup Nazi Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: No soup for you! Posts: 1,636	My god...calm down a bit. The ENTIRE SYSTEM requires a 450W PSU with 30A on the 12V rail. That's shared amongst the CPU, drives, fans, mobo, water pump if there is one and everything else plus the GPU so having 4-20A rails is more than enough. Take a Prozac and relax a bit. The 8800GTX uses at most 13A on DX9 and maybe, just possibly will require 18A on DX10 so quit panicking, you have more than enough power to run your system. You'll have 40A (20A X 2) shared amongst your 8800GTX SLI cards and another 40A for everything else. A $10,000 super duty home PC with dual dualcore CPU's and SLI 8800GTX's won't even touch that amount of power so don't freak out, you're well covered. __________________ M4N82 Deluxe Phenom II 940 Black Edition quad core @ 3.5Ghz 2x1 gig OCZ PC26400 Platinum, 2x1gig GSkill PC26400 EVGA GTX260 Buncha drives, Some other stuff, Even more stuff, If the automobile had followed the same development cycle as the computer, a Rolls-Royce would today cost $100, get a million miles per gallon, and explode once a year, killing everyone inside. --Robert X. Cringely, InfoWorld magazine Sign Me!

01-28-2007, 07:44 AM	#15
madmat Soup Nazi Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: No soup for you! Posts: 1,636	Prozac is for anxiety attacks which it looked like you were having. Valium is too but it's a bit debilitating so I suggest Prozac over it But yeah, you're fine with the Tagan, it's not a bad unit as long as you avoid cross connecting the 12V lines. __________________ M4N82 Deluxe Phenom II 940 Black Edition quad core @ 3.5Ghz 2x1 gig OCZ PC26400 Platinum, 2x1gig GSkill PC26400 EVGA GTX260 Buncha drives, Some other stuff, Even more stuff, If the automobile had followed the same development cycle as the computer, a Rolls-Royce would today cost $100, get a million miles per gallon, and explode once a year, killing everyone inside. --Robert X. Cringely, InfoWorld magazine Sign Me!

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
power supply failures	Psi*	General Hardware	7	10-27-2009 02:28 AM
Power Supply Question?	HgCn	General Hardware	2	03-07-2008 04:43 PM
Power Supply requirements	cyborg939	General Hardware	4	11-12-2007 05:53 AM
Tagan Silver Power SP-1000W	Rob Williams	Reviews and Articles	1	06-28-2007 06:33 AM
Power Supply	Will Nave	General Hardware	6	06-09-2005 01:25 PM