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Old 10-17-2012, 07:30 PM   #1
Rob Williams
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Default When regular users give Windows 8 a go

Alright, so this is a shill video for some Start menu replacement, but the reactions seen here mimic those I've seen from family and friends, so I tend to believe them.


I do question the IT girl, though. Who on earth is an IT manager and is that unfamiliar with the next much-touted version of Windows?
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Old 10-17-2012, 08:16 PM   #2
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The guy in the vid has a tech site of his own and he's got a vid on youtube of his dad fighting with 8 that is just hilarious.
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Old 10-18-2012, 06:49 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob Williams View Post
I do question the IT girl, though. Who on earth is an IT manager and is that unfamiliar with the next much-touted version of Windows?
Are you kidding? Not every single IT person is going to be screwing around with beta versions of Windows 8. She said so herself she doesn't see her organization switching to Windows 8 anytime soon because they would have to retrain everyone... businesses and organizations may balk extremely hard at migrating to 8 for this very reason.

What people aren't talking about yet is the risk that resistance to Windows 8 may be so bad, that we will see what happened with Windows Vista. Consumers demanded OEMs give them XP, and so for several years OEMs downgraded Vista machines to XP.... I think there's a really strong chance we may see an even stronger push for users wishing to downgrade to Windows 7 this time around, and in today's economy businesses will be more eager to give consumers what they want.
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Old 10-18-2012, 08:08 PM   #4
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Are you kidding? Not every single IT person is going to be screwing around with beta versions of Windows 8.
It strikes me as a little bizarre for an IT manager to not be forward-thinking at all... to not even consider what's coming up and to investigate just a little bit. It's not like Windows 8 has been much of a secret, but she was just introduced to it in this video!
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Old 10-18-2012, 08:15 PM   #5
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I already said that 8 IS going to bomb. Its going to be like vista, I think were going to see windows 9 or similar being what 8 should have been, a slight interface overhaul and a massive overhaul behind the scenes. I really think they killed 8 by making massive changes that NO ONE asked for.

I agree somewhat to the IT person BUT if she heard it wasn't going to be good she may not have even tested it for that reason. I haven't because of that reason.
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Old 10-19-2012, 01:05 AM   #6
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It depends on her position and what she does, here she just said she is a "systems manager". So likely she has no say in the decisions of the IT department, and especially doesn't have a say in purchases made by the IT department. So then she doesn't have any reason to mess with it. It was clear from her own point of view is that if they adopt Windows 8, then she needs training for it as well

Again the typical organization doesn't upgrade their infrastructure except after quite a few years. She stated her organization is already using Windows 7, so it is likely they would not be adopting another transition for another 3-5 years out. They may not even change the OS until they buy new computers for everyone, which is the only way many businesses upgrade at all. So it doesn't strike me at all unusual.

My uni was still using XP in all the classrooms that had computers set up two years ago, they were only just beginning to phase out P4 and Core Duo's on XP for Windows 7 machines because of how they remotely deploy and manage software distribution & tight software security policies for the campus.
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Old 10-19-2012, 01:57 PM   #7
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(Chris Pirillo been around for a loong time. He used to run Lockergnome in the 90s, a Web Forum/Usenet combo where basically we discussed all tech stuff. He's a Microsoft-slash-Windows advocate for the most part and it's been impressive to see him hammer Windows 8 since the beginning).

Windows 8... doesn't even fit in my vocabulary. I always turn the spell checker on to make sure I write it correctly. It's another Windows Vista experience for me; an operating system I will skip and ignore completely. What's however sad is that I've used Microsoft operating systems since MSDOS 3.2 and never skipped one. On the last 5 years, Microsoft has made me skip two.

And, get this... all because of the User Experience Program they have going on since Windows XP. You know that thing that lets them collect usage data. That single piece of technology is what has been producing all this nonsense at Microsoft with all UI (and whatnot) changes to the operating systems being justified as "this is what our collected data shows is what users do". The irony.
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Old 10-19-2012, 04:23 PM   #8
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Makes sense, Marfig. The software tells them people are not using certain features, so they remove them. Users that used it, then need to find a new method. New method is found, more people use it, use other methods less - those are then removed. It becomes a spiral of decline. Redesigning old features due to disuse, making decisions based on data from observation. It's a case of Schroedinger's Cat, little realising that the tool they are using to improve the experience is the tool responsible for the decline. Three percent of the user-base use a certain feature, it's such a small number, it doesn't matter, move it somewhere else and use that space for something people do use what they didn't realise was that the 3% that used the feature, were sys-admins (hypothetical).

These new features reduce the amount of time spent performing certain actions, learn to use them and you'll be more productive. It's an enforced mindset. The number of people using mobile devices is increasing rapidly - this must mean they are spending less time on desktops (assumption error).
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Last edited by marfig; 10-19-2012 at 06:28 PM. Reason: reposted Tharic-Nar original post. I unwillingly edited it out.
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Old 10-19-2012, 05:41 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tharic-Nar View Post
Makes sense, Marfig. The software tells them people are not using certain features, so they remove them. Users that used it, then need to find a new method. New method is found, more people use it, use other methods less - those are then removed. It becomes a spiral of decline. Redesigning old features due to disuse, making decisions based on data from observation. It's a case of Schroedinger's Cat, little realising that the tool they are using to improve the experience is the tool responsible for the decline. Three percent of the user-base use a certain feature, it's such a small number, it doesn't matter, move it somewhere else and use that space for something people do use - what they didn't realise was that the 3% that used the feature, were sys-admins (hypothetical).

These new features reduce the amount of time spent performing certain actions, learn to use them and you'll be more productive. It's an enforced mindset. The number of people using mobile devices is increasing rapidly - this must mean they are spending less time on desktops (assumption error).
The thing is, I highly doubt that people aren't using the start menu.
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Old 10-19-2012, 06:02 PM   #10
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I have a launcher yet still use the start menu and an OSX style launchpad. I dont use the start menu a ton due to having most things pinned combined with the launchpad (has most shortcuts so I can keep a ..... "cleaner" desktop (not really lmao)).
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Old 10-19-2012, 06:19 PM   #11
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I have nothing on my desktop.



I have a desktop shortcut toolbar but that's it.
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Old 10-19-2012, 06:23 PM   #12
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hahaha Ill post mine when my 7970 gets here! THE WAITING!!! IT SUCKS!! >.> This is why I need a backup GPU.
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Old 10-19-2012, 06:29 PM   #13
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Makes sense, Marfig. The software tells them people are not using certain features, so they remove them. Users that used it, then need to find a new method. New method is found, more people use it, use other methods less - those are then removed. It becomes a spiral of decline. Redesigning old features due to disuse, making decisions based on data from observation. It's a case of Schroedinger's Cat, little realising that the tool they are using to improve the experience is the tool responsible for the decline. Three percent of the user-base use a certain feature, it's such a small number, it doesn't matter, move it somewhere else and use that space for something people do use what they didn't realise was that the 3% that used the feature, were sys-admins (hypothetical).

These new features reduce the amount of time spent performing certain actions, learn to use them and you'll be more productive. It's an enforced mindset. The number of people using mobile devices is increasing rapidly - this must mean they are spending less time on desktops (assumption error).
What is at stake isn't whether they know what they are doing. I highly doubt they don't. They know very well what they are doing. If they didn't, this would be easy: Someone would get fired and the problems ended.

The problem is what passes today for Microsoft set of beliefs and how they don't agree with me and many other customers. Like a good preacher they firmly believe in what they are doing and saying. They even believe that dramatically changing a UI every 10 years is going to be sooner or later easily accepted by businesses who will also accept the added costs in training and temporary loss of productivity.

When the Windows 8 saga started we were going to have a Metro interface, but were also promised it would be optional. As always, Microsoft didn't keep its promises during the development and early bet stages. I remember discussing with someone this very issue then and being called a cynical for not wanting to just accept Microsoft word for it (this cynical however is been around with Microsoft since MSDOS 3.2 and has had plenty of time to learn from past experiences). What we have today is a great mobile device UI, but no real desktop UI. Metro is some piece of badly designed easy to use UI with some SERIOUS discoverability issues, turning it into the most difficult to use operating system in Microsoft's history. But it also got no business in how businesses traditionally use their computers and the patterns and workflows they developed around them. It's a consumer operating system. Not a tool with its focus on running applications. It's an insanely stupid strategy for a desktop operating system...

...all based on a highly doubtful strategy of collecting data from those people who don't turn off the user experience program as soon as that dialog window pops up.

Actually, it may be that they don't know what they are doing. Looking at data and taking decisions the way they are doing it, it's a clear case of confusing information with knowledge. A typical mistake of anyone possessing a whole lot of information.
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Old 10-20-2012, 04:24 PM   #14
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How long can Microsoft go on like this? With the way IT is changing, could they end up eating dust? That idea puts a smile on my face for some strange reason ....
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Old 10-20-2012, 06:27 PM   #15
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How long can Microsoft go on like this? With the way IT is changing, could they end up eating dust? That idea puts a smile on my face for some strange reason ....
Microsoft risks eating the dust in this rapidly changing market. I wouldn't be surprised. Ironically enough the way to avoid it is to rapidly adapt to the consumer-grade application mentality set forth by Apple and others. That means pushing Metro forward.

The problem, in my opinion, is that this paradigm shift of the past few years between the "old" function-centric applications and operating systems and the "new" consumer-centric application model isn't really about "old" and "new". This is simply the tapping of a previously unexplored market. The function-centric application model is still in very much high demand. Notice that despite what all the hype may lead you to think, personal computer sales still dominate the global worldwide market. If they are declining, it is only natural: They are adjusting themselves to this new market and the new devices that took a share from the PC. Were before there was only the personal computer to handle web services and communications, now we have smartphones and tablets that can do it. Anyone pretending the decline spells the doom of the personal computer is just doing futurology and not paying attention to history and the many past examples were the same was said about personal computers (and newspapers, and radio, and television).

So, when Microsoft announced Metro I was happy. here we had a more active Microsoft, quick to embrace new trends and understanding the huge importance of what Apple created. Around the time it was announced the Microsoft/Nokia partnership I actually thought we would be having a Microsoft trying to disturb Apple's tablet market share with a tablet and operating system of its own. That's what Metro is for, and Microsoft announcing that Metro would be an optional interface to Windows 8, made every sense in the world. What best way to market their new tablet-centric UI than offering it as an alternative to their desktop operating system?

But when it became evident Microsoft's plans were in fact to force it down our throats and make Metro the only UI for Windows 8, that really put an end to any ideas I had of a Microsoft/Nokia tablet or anything else for that matter. The philosophy is instead to bring Apple's vision to the desktop and hopefully turn the PC into one heavy tablet in our homes to keep Microsoft shareholders happy that what everyone is saying that the PC is dead is not going to happen because we now have a consumer-centric operating system for the desktop.

To top it, as if function-centric operating systems were a thing of the past, we are presented with this absolute nonsense of an idea that Metro is an easier to use operating system. "Define easier!"

There's nothing overly complicated in the line of operating systems from Microsoft since Windows 95. My wife could for sure locate and fire Excel, Word or a browser from a Windows 95 installation as well as she can from a Window 7 one. And as new generations take their turn, thus seeing a general increase in the IT world literacy, we can expect the easy-of-use epithet to see its scope diminish.

What instead we have is just a new market with specific needs. Not a change from a complicated world to a better and easier one. That Metro (or some descendant) can eventually find its way into our offices one day, I have little doubts. But I seriously question the fact we are being forced into it when it shouldn't. There's no reason whatsoever to think that the current UI (~20 years old) is inadequate for the professional market or that is going to become worse as the years move on.
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