Latest Forum Posts

Latest News Posts
Coming Soon!
Social
Go Back   Techgage.com > Archives > Reviews and Articles

Reviews and Articles Discussion for Techgage content is located here. Only staff can create topics, but everyone is welcome to post.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 06-04-2012, 05:50 PM   #1
Rob Williams
Editor-in-Chief
 
Rob Williams's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Atlantic Canada
Posts: 13,351
Default Max Payne 3 Review

After a long hiatus, the infamous Max Payne is finally back. But before you think he's been living the good-life since the last time we checked in, think again. Beaten down and lacking any feeling of self-worth, we continue the Payne saga by getting an honest job protecting a wealthy family. What could possibly go wrong?

Read through our look at Max Payne 3 and then discuss it here!
__________________
Intel Core i7-3960X, GIGABYTE G1.Assassin 2, Kingston 16GB DDR3-2133, NVIDIA GeForce GTX 770 2GB
Kingston HyperX 3K 240GB SSD (OS, Apps), WD VR 1TB (Games), Corsair 1000HX, Corsair H70 Cooler
Corsair 800D, Dell 2408WFP 24", ASUS Xonar Essence STX, Gentoo (KDE 4.11. 3.12 Kernel)

"Take care to get what you like, or you will be forced to like what you get!" - H.P. Baxxter
<Toad772> I don't always drink alcohol, but when I do, I take it too far.


Rob Williams is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2012, 04:15 AM   #2
Relayer
E.M.I.
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 67
Default

Something I noticed while looking at the screenies on pg 3 was how poorly the texture mapping was done on some models. In the first screenshot the model in the upper right that looks like a bunch of pyramids stuck together there's stretching and misalignment of the textures. On the last screenshot the tile textures where the wall meets the window sill are also poorly mapped.

I only point it out because I do modeling, and even though I'm just a hobbyist, I would never leave textures looking like that.
Relayer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2012, 08:38 AM   #3
Brett Thomas
Senior Editor
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 164
Default

An interesting catch, Relayer...and quite accurate. I will say that your point of being a hobbyist might be WHY you wouldn't let that happen - a professional has to get a "good" job done in a short time, where a hobbyist can do a GREAT job because they don't have a time limit and it's something they're passionate about. But that being said, it brings up a very good point that Rob and I were discussing just the other day about graphical advancement and where things really have not moved 'forward' all that well. I really think people-modeling in particular has stagnated.
Brett Thomas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2012, 10:47 AM   #4
Tharic-Nar
Techgage Staff
 
Tharic-Nar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: UK
Posts: 1,166
Default

I think the poly count problem is the result of the 7 year generational stagnation in consoles. Hence the necessity for tessellation - it allows for 'post-process' type effects on models, so the original model may remain a low poly model for low-end hardware and consoles, but bumped up for high-end systems. It saves having to make two different model sets. I know model swapping is available and used in LoD for terrain and static models, but I'm not sure they use it for highly animated models like people, (since the skeletons and morph points will behave differently compared to their higher poly versions).

Textures have remained static for a very long time, but additional layers are being added, like depth maps, normal maps, gloss and alpha.

One thing I think that needs to be expanded on is something called order-independent transparency - something we've seen before in an AMD tech-demo...



Now use this in conjunction with a person. You'd have 2 levels to the person's skin, the outer skin and the muscle/vein underneath. Could figure out some muscle deformation too. Anyway, with the two layers, the top layer will be semitransparent, allowing some light through to the layer underneath, with its own bump, gloss, etc layers. It would be possible to get some very interesting and realistic lighting effects, instead of relying on just solid textures. In ray-trace, this would be the equivalent of sub-surface scattering. Though admittedly, I have no idea on the cost of processing this in a raster method.

Expand on this further, and you could create layers to a building, or even allow for someones skin to be peeled off, instead of relying on a separate/fixed model for that purpose. Thick glass could be done more effectively, energy shields, etc...

But the above method is a DX11 thing... and we all know where that leads... nowhere. Damn you consoles...

Anyway, if there is one thing I'd like to see abolished at least in my life-time, is clipping. Robes cutting through legs and chairs, hair defying the laws of quantum physics, sword wielders immune to their own weapons when sheathing. One day it'll be fixed... one day...
__________________
PSU: Corsair 1000HX - Case: Thermaltake Xaser VI Full Tower - CPU: Intel Core i7 2600 @3.8GHz - Cooler: Thermaltake FRIO - Motherboard: ASUS P67 Sabertooth - Memory: 16GB Corsair Vengeance LP Arctic 1600 - GPU: 2x AMD Radeon HD 5870 - HDD: WD Caviar Black 1TB 6Gb/s +1TB +2TB storage - Audio: ODAC + O2 Amp, ASUS Xonar DX
K/B: Corsair K90 - Mouse: ROCCAT KONE XTD - Monitor: DELL U2410 - Speakers: Corsair SP2500 - Headphones: Beyerdynamic DT990 - Mic: Blue Yeti USB Microphone

- I need Fiber to fix my Irregular Bandwidth Syndrome -

Last edited by Tharic-Nar; 06-05-2012 at 11:08 AM.
Tharic-Nar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2012, 07:40 PM   #5
Rob Williams
Editor-in-Chief
 
Rob Williams's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Atlantic Canada
Posts: 13,351
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Relayer View Post
Something I noticed while looking at the screenies on pg 3 was how poorly the texture mapping was done on some models. In the first screenshot the model in the upper right that looks like a bunch of pyramids stuck together there's stretching and misalignment of the textures. On the last screenshot the tile textures where the wall meets the window sill are also poorly mapped.

I only point it out because I do modeling, and even though I'm just a hobbyist, I would never leave textures looking like that.
I admit I can't find the polygonal character you're speaking about, but the issue in the last image on page 3 is rather blatant. It wasn't noticeable in-game due to it being a very hectic situation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brett Thomas View Post
a professional has to get a "good" job done in a short time
Even so... this modeler / designer had to have been lazy. There's just no excuse for the messiness of that final shot.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tharic-Nar
or even allow for someones skin to be peeled off
You are one sick frog, you know that?

Good information though!
__________________
Intel Core i7-3960X, GIGABYTE G1.Assassin 2, Kingston 16GB DDR3-2133, NVIDIA GeForce GTX 770 2GB
Kingston HyperX 3K 240GB SSD (OS, Apps), WD VR 1TB (Games), Corsair 1000HX, Corsair H70 Cooler
Corsair 800D, Dell 2408WFP 24", ASUS Xonar Essence STX, Gentoo (KDE 4.11. 3.12 Kernel)

"Take care to get what you like, or you will be forced to like what you get!" - H.P. Baxxter
<Toad772> I don't always drink alcohol, but when I do, I take it too far.


Rob Williams is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-06-2012, 01:13 AM   #6
Relayer
E.M.I.
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 67
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brett Thomas View Post
An interesting catch, Relayer...and quite accurate. I will say that your point of being a hobbyist might be WHY you wouldn't let that happen - a professional has to get a "good" job done in a short time, where a hobbyist can do a GREAT job because they don't have a time limit and it's something they're passionate about. But that being said, it brings up a very good point that Rob and I were discussing just the other day about graphical advancement and where things really have not moved 'forward' all that well. I really think people-modeling in particular has stagnated.
The time constraint argument is valid. Modelers are often contracted and unless they can work quickly they aren't going to make any money.

UV mapping is the most painful part of modeling. Making the mesh is fun. Texturing it is rewarding because you see your creation come to life. Unwrapping the model can be very tedious. There are some really good tools for mapping now, but the tools included with the modeling apps are generally not too elegant. While neither of those models are complex, both of these "errors" were caused by not taking enough care unwrapping the models.

Once tessellation becomes standard (Dx11 consoles), we should see major improvements in models. Right now the models still have to be lowres. Adding tessellation only helps so much when the original model was made with one eye on the polygon counter.
Relayer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-2012, 01:39 PM   #7
Doomsday
Tech Junkie
 
Doomsday's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: KHI, PAK
Posts: 1,559
Default

After SWTOR I just can't get my self to play any other game! Only ME3(with its bullshit ending) and Diablo 3!
Hmm... though I loved the first one and liked the 2nd, I might give this a try once it gets cheaper, lol!
__________________
PSU: Corsair AX850 - Case: Cooler Master HAF X - CPU:Core i7-2600k - Cooler: Cooler Master V6 GT - Motherboard: Asus Z68 Maximus IV Extreme Z - Memory: Corsair Vengeance 8 GB-1600Mhz - GPU: AMD MSI R6970 Lightning - HDD: WD Caviar Black 1TB, Seagate 2TB Barracuda Green - SSD: Intel 520 Series 120GB - K/B: Razer Lycosa Mirror - Mouse: Logitech G700 - MouseMat: Steel Series 4HD - LCD: Asus VG278H 27" - Speakers: Creative Inspire M4500 4.1 - Headset: Logitech G35 7.1



"Do not look at a man's prayers nor his fasts, rather, measure him by how well he deals with others, the compassion he shows his fellow man, his wisdom and his integrity" - Umar Ibn Al-Khattab


Doomsday is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
None

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
A Technical Look at Max Payne 3 Rob Williams Reviews and Articles 0 06-10-2012 08:48 PM
Max Payne 3 system requirements revealed Rob Williams Gaming 2 04-26-2012 01:21 AM
Max Payne 3 in 2009! Rob Williams Gaming 2 03-25-2009 02:35 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:31 PM.