Microsoft Announces Branded 'Surface' Tablets

[Kayden]

MacMan, I honestly do see why you disagree with him, I for 100% in fact do agree with him because of the point you quoted which is:

Originally Posted by Rob Williams

To me, Surface can be a game-changer for one major reason: it's a computer. Plain and simple... it's a computer. It's not an Android or iOS tablet that has a locked-down OS and can't run x86 applications - it's a full-on computer. That means people have the best of both worlds here. People can use the tablet as if it's not even a desktop OS, installing mobile-esque apps as they please, and when the need arises, they can push Metro to the background and use an actual Windows OS.

An Android or an iPad based OS is closed, thus you can't change anything unless the MANUFACTURER says you can or can not. He gave us a prime example of what it means to be open and here it is:

Originally Posted by Rob Williams

You'd be able to install Photoshop, not use some makeshift small version of it, the entire Office suite, robust chat clients, Steam and whatever else you usually install to Windows. Especially on the "Pro" model, there's going to be capable enough hardware to run a wide variety of PC games - you are not limited to what's just going to be available in the app store. Running games from Steam -will- be possible. Though I think it remains to be seen what sort of GPU the Pro model will have.

The lack of flexibility is the primary reason why I have not bought a tablet. I am a user that likes having choice accompanied with reasonable performance in everything from gaming to applications, I know that you can jailbreak either of these devices but it means voiding your warranty, putting your trust in some you don't know and hoping that it doesn't brick your device.

I believe this is not a reasonable solution for any one who is considering or has paid for any of those devices no matter who makes them. I also believe that when you or I buy something we have the RIGHT to modify it any which way I want, no matter who made it with out voiding the warranty. That's just me.

[Rob Williams]

I have work to take care of, so I'm posting this in haste (feel free to jab me about typos or factual errors).

Originally Posted by MacMan

Really? You mean Android and iOS tablet are not real computers, but somehow Windows 8 RT tablets, based on the very same hardware, are real computers?

I am not talking hardware, and you know this. Even the Windows 8 RT edition will have a partial desktop, and allow non-Metro applications to be installed. Because the support is going to be limited for Windows-based ARM software, people who DO want a full-blown experience can opt for the better "Pro" model with x86_64 hardware (which means -all- Windows software is installable).

Originally Posted by MacMan

Get real..... Windows had full, so-called real PC spec tablets selling (poorly) for over 24 years now! What makes you think that suddenly, things are going to change now just because Microsoft is behind it? Microsoft with its real PC tablets sold some 1.6 million tablets in its first 24 years, compared to the iPad which sold close to 4-million in its first six months.... see where I'm going?

I don't get your logic. Just because a company hasn't proven itself up to now, it can't ever?

Originally Posted by MacMan

The very problem with Windows tablets for the past 20 long plus years was that they WERE FULL-BLOWN PC's, and it only goes to prove that the old PC metaphor was simply wrong and why some are now saying things like :

Guess what those tablets lacked? A mobile front-end, like Windows 8 (or Android, and iOS). They were PCs, and not inviting at all. The landscape has changed drastically over the past couple of years, a fact you don't seem to grasp. Apple undoubtedly spearheaded the movement to make tablets popular, and the entire industry has progressed off of that. I see no reason why Microsoft's tablet should fail, just because you want it to, or because the company has never been able to establish itself in the past.

The tablet landscape has changed, plain and simple.

Originally Posted by MacMan

"That's All Folks: Why the Writing Is on the Wall at Microsoft"

Seven months before the iPhone came out, over five years ago, I emailed you a video of what Apple was planning with muilti-touch (I still have the email) and your response was incredibly:

"It looks interesting, but I honestly can't see any practical use for it.."

Alright, you lost me. What does multi-touch have to do with any of this? You are really grasping at straws. And for the record, I still don't care about touch, multi-touch or what-have-you for production-like work. As a TABLET, things are a little different.

Originally Posted by MacMan

Like Microsoft, you seem to be stuck in the past, the PC past

Says pardon? Allow me to quote you again:

Originally Posted by MacMan

Get real..... Windows had full, so-called real PC spec tablets selling (poorly) for over 24 years now! What makes you think that suddenly, things are going to change now just because Microsoft is behind it?

Enough said.

Originally Posted by MacMan

Microsoft might still have the greatest share of the PC market, but that market is dwindling and is soon to be eclipsed by those so-called non-real Android and iPad ARM based pseudo tablets that you seem to dislike, and it is predicted that by 2015:

"Yankee Group Predicts Tablet Sales Will Eclipse Those of PCs by 2015"

Alright, I have to ask again - what on earth does this have to do with the discussion at hand?

Originally Posted by MacMan

The notion that the more PC like a gadget is, the better it is, or that the more it will sell doesn't add up.

What part of the term "best of both worlds" is unknown to you? For those who want just a mobile device, they can opt for Windows 8 RT (but still have added flexibility over iOS and Android), and those who want a more feature-rich tablet, they can get the Pro model, which allows them to both use a mobile-esque front-end -and- a full desktop environment for when it's needed.

Oh, and because you want to bring up some ridiculous points that have nothing to do with the conversation - you know what's cool about these Surface tablets? They come with a microSD slot. Oh... and USB ports. I thought about elaborating on these points, but I guess that's all I need to say.

I could come up with a ton of counter-arguments and bring up unrelated things that work in Microsoft's favor also, but there's just little point. I don't need to rummage for links to help back my opinions up - I talk based on fact, not assumptions.

Originally Posted by Kayden

An Android or an iPad based OS is closed, thus you can't change anything unless the MANUFACTURER says you can or can not.

And as far as that goes, iOS is far more limiting than Android, and this is no doubt something that drives MacMan nuts (not that I believe he's ever used an iOS device outside of a store).

A personal fave-five list of things I do on Android that I can't on iOS:

1) Customization. You can customize the -entire- front-end on Android so that it doesn't even look like an Android device. You're even able to change the lock screen theme if you wanted to. Oh, did I mention this can all be done without rooting your device?

2) Widgets. I still cannot believe that widget support doesn't exist in iOS. I use widgets religiously, to have quick access to sports scores, the weather, my Last.fm account and even little things like the screen brightness, wifi enable/disable and so forth. Widgets... do not exist on iOS. A lot of iOS fans tell me that they'd never use widgets, but I can tell you one thing, whenever I look at an Android phone or tablet that a friend or acquantance has, they're using widgets.

3) Default applications. In iOS, if you download an image and want to view it, you must use whatever Apple deems is the default application. Downloaded another app-viewer that you prefer? Good. Go open it and THEN go find the pictures you want to view. There's no such thing as going to a picture in a file manager and then just clicking the image to view it in your favorite viewer. The same idea applies to videos, image editing, phone numbers and addresses in e-mails or on webpages and so forth. What happens to those Google Maps fans who like the app? In iOS 6 they'll lose the convenience of simply being able to click an address and have it open in the program. Instead, it'll default to Apple's new map program.

4) Live wallpapers. I admit this is more of a simpler complaint, but it's still something I take advantage of on Android. For those who aren't aware (eg: all Apple users), Live Wallpapers is just as it sounds... animated background wallpapers. I sometimes use one for the weather, where the background changes depending on it. At the start of the last NFL season, I had a Colts one where a Colts flagged waved in the background as I browsed through my apps.

5) Installation of out-of-market apps. On Android, the feature is built into the OS to allow you to install an APK that you download (equivelent to an .exe on Windows). So if I wanted, I could go to the net and download an older version of an app if I wanted to, or an app that's not available in the app store.

To be fair, I am sure ALL of these things can be done on iOS if you rooted your phone, but that's the problem with me... you need to root the phone. All of these common-sense things above can be done on Android without rooting your phone. And for those who say, "I wouldn't use those things anyway", that's fair. At least Android gives those people who do want them the choice.

In the end, I don't care if I'm wrong and Microsoft DOES fail with Surface. I am not invested in it. I am just a realist and see things for what things are. If it does fail, I'm sure not going to go all bolded italicized underlined linky crazy to defend my thoughts.