Upgrading from 2GB to 4GB. Questions!

[James Crysis]

Hi guys.
I'm thinking about upgrading my 2GB (2 x 1GB modules) of Team Elite 800mhz RAM to 4GB (2 x 2GB) of some different RAM, instead of just buying another 2GB of the same RAM. The things I don't like about the RAM I have now is that it's rather generic, doesn't have a lifetime warranty, and will fill all my RAM slots if I get another 2 modules, making me unable to upgrade more later, without getting a new mobo or new RAM.
The main thing that inspired me to upgrade was an article I read (http://www.corsair.com/_appnotes/AN804_Gaming_Performance_Analysis.pdf) that was written my Corsair about the benefits of having 4gb over 2gb.
What I am thinking about getting is OCZ Reaper HPC 800mhz RAM. What really draws me in is the sexy heatpipes and heatspreader together, along with the overclockability and good price of it. I've never overclocked in my life but with RAM like that I don't think I'll be able to stand not overclocking it.

My question for you guys is do you think the Reaper memory is a good choice? I'll be buying from here (http://www.umart.com.au/pro/products_listnew.phtml?id=10&bid=4&id2=111) so take a look and if there is something else there that you think is better for the price then I'd like to know (along with a reason why). The Reaper memory is the coolest looking stuff there though so if I don't listen to your suggestions then don't take it personally :p

P.S. Is this RAM likely to work with my ASUS P5K SE motherboard (http://www.asus.com/products.aspx?l1=3&l2=11&l3=534&l4=0&model=1705&modelmenu=1)?

-James Crysis-

[Merlin]

Like I found out, it will work, but revert to the slower timings
So...if the reaper is 5.5.5.18
and the present 800 mhz memory is 4.4.4.12
It all will revert to 5.5.5.18
Or something close to it

Merlin
You will have two different memory types together.
The best thing to do is to get ALL the same memory

[James Crysis]

I am going to sell the current RAM I have to a family member to help pay for the Reaper memory, so I won't have them both in at the same time. I'm running 32-bit XP so having 6GB of RAM would be pointless anyway.
I'm still not too sure what the timings on RAM really means. I know that its all about the latency, and the lower the timings the better, but what are some common things to look for in RAM timings?
And with what you were saying about how it will revert to slower timings: I'm pretty sure my current RAM is guaranteed to have slower timings than the Reaper memory. Will it revert to the faster timings when I put the Reaper memory in?
Also, what program/s are best for RAM (or just any component) overclocking? And will having (2 x 2GB) of RAM have any speed benefits over having (4 x 1GB) of RAM (just assume they are all the same kind of RAM).

Thanks.

[Merlin]

I am going to sell the current RAM I have to a family member to help pay for the Reaper memory, so I won't have them both in at the same time. I'm running 32-bit XP so having 6GB of RAM would be pointless anyway.
I'm still not too sure what the timings on RAM really means. I know that its all about the latency, and the lower the timings the better, but what are some common things to look for in RAM timings?
And with what you were saying about how it will revert to slower timings: I'm pretty sure my current RAM is guaranteed to have slower timings than the Reaper memory. Will it revert to the faster timings when I put the Reaper memory in?
Also, what program/s are best for RAM (or just any component) overclocking? And will having (2 x 2GB) of RAM have any speed benefits over having (4 x 1GB) of RAM (just assume they are all the same kind of RAM).

Thanks.
Ahhhhhhh Then...
A 32 bit system will see and use 2.75 gigs of ram if 4 gigs are installed.
You sure you want to do that?

Merlin

[James Crysis]

I heard that 32-bit will recognize 3.5 gigs, but still do dual channel. From what I read on that corsair article, it's basically your amount of physical ram, minus your video memory? Howcome you say only 2.75 gigs?

[b1lk1]

Most 32-bit operating systems will use up to 3.3-3.5GB of ram. It greatly depends on teh peripherals in your system. A 512MB video card takes that much off the top and other components can also take some. SLI/Crossfire will also take double since there are 2 video cards. It is still worth it considering the price of ram today (DDR2 atleast). I would also recommend upgrading to a 64-bit OS since they work very well. Even XP-64bit is quite stable and usable now.

The thing to remember about a 32-bit OS is there are major limitations as to how much memory can be used by a single program. That is what makes anything more than 2GB on XP 32bit kinda useless anyways.

[James Crysis]

OK so it would still be an alright idea to buy the RAM do you think? And does anyone have any recommendations for some other RAM off that site I mentioned in my first post, or is Reaper probably the best?

[Merlin]

OK so it would still be an alright idea to buy the RAM do you think? And does anyone have any recommendations for some other RAM off that site I mentioned in my first post, or is Reaper probably the best?
I'm using the 1150 ( 2 ) gig ( twin 1 gig ) Reaper in the E8400 machine, really pleased with the performance

Merlin

[James Crysis]

Ok thank you for your help, it really cleared a few things up in my mind. Looking forward to the new RAM.

[Rob Williams]

Ahh, nothing like that new RAM smell.

[James Crysis]

What overclocking program/s are best for overclocking RAM?

[Rob Williams]

The BIOS.. nothing else.

[James Crysis]

Ok thanks. And would anyone be able to explain RAM timings to me in layman's terms? Or atleast refer me to a good site that explains it all?

Kinda off-topic, but what do you guys use to overclock other components?

[Merlin]

Ok thanks. And would anyone be able to explain RAM timings to me in layman's terms? Or atleast refer me to a good site that explains it all?

Kinda off-topic, but what do you guys use to overclock other components?
set bios to unlinked and oc the cpu
bump the ram up a bit and test
Let the timings stay

[b1lk1]

Ok thanks. And would anyone be able to explain RAM timings to me in layman's terms? Or atleast refer me to a good site that explains it all?

Kinda off-topic, but what do you guys use to overclock other components?

As for the ram, Google each setting name and read up. Unless you are looking for every single last MHz (which makes no difference in real world use) you won't need to change much. Honestly, I pretty much run my stuff stock since overclocking doesn't help much and is more trouble than it is worth usually.

Overclock everything in bios except video cards. Use RivaTuner for Nvidia cards and I reluctantly say use ATITool for ATI cards. I do not like ATITool as I feel it is poorly coded and can cause card failures if you are not careful.

[Kougar]

The BIOS.. nothing else.

Memset is good if the BIOS does not offer the RAM settings you are looking for. LINK (http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=92190) I use it to verify timings and the tRD aka chipset strap/MCHBar, whatever ya want to call it.

Honestly, RAM tuning takes a huge amount of effort for usually small gains, and some settings are hard to check for stability as they can test stable at first, but fail the second pass. To be honest I just gave up on it... I'd have to relearn it all over yet again with DDR3 anyway. :D


Overclock everything in bios except video cards. Use RivaTuner for Nvidia cards and I reluctantly say use ATITool for ATI cards. I do not like ATITool as I feel it is poorly coded and can cause card failures if you are not careful.

Overclocking with ATI Tool is bad idea these days, but I don't know of anything that is as sensitive to GPU instability as their artifact scanning tool. ESPECIALLY GPU RAM! If you know of a better way to test GPU RAM, I'd be all ears... I need to find that thread on B3D's forums again where XFX techs explained how to test NVIDIA RAM, pretty sure my G80 has a GDDR3 chip on the way out but I want to be sure before attempting an RMA.

[Rob Williams]

Memset is good if the BIOS does not offer the RAM settings you are looking for. LINK (http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=92190) I use it to verify timings and the tRD aka chipset strap/MCHBar, whatever ya want to call it.

I guess... but you'd have to be dedicated. There are four basic memory timings... if you want to go beyond those, feel free. Personally, I could care less about it. I used to, but when I clued into the fact that I was literally wasting nights on overclocking one kit of RAM, I learned my lesson.

That aside, increasing the frequency would be more important in seeing real-world benefits, but I'm pretty confident most people wouldn't notice the different with any overclock they use. It's all more for the ego, really.

James Crysis, the four main timings are CAS (CL), RAS to CAS (tRCD), RAS precharge (tRP) and RAS to RAS (tRAS). The CL is usually the most difficult to tighten up, while the tRAS is the easiest. The tRAS, sadly, usually makes absolutely no difference in performance though.

Did you end up going with the Reaper? And would you be able to link to the exact RAM used? We might be able to give recommendations based off of that.

[Kougar]

Rob, is why I said I gave up on RAM tuning... beyond the main settings, there is little else worthwhile. Except for tRD... this one has a huge performance impact, and involves the chipset more than the actual RAM.

In reality it affects the chipset's internal clockspeeds in reference to the using the FSB to access the RAM, so it effectively supersedes all of the RAM settings. Back before this setting caught on, some 965P boards didn't even try to tune it at all, and this was what caused the performance differences between some brands. Setting a tight tRD also limits the overclocks, so they had little incentive to do so.

[James Crysis]

Did you end up going with the Reaper? And would you be able to link to the exact RAM used? We might be able to give recommendations based off of that.

No I haven't bought the RAM yet. This (http://www.ocztechnology.com/products/memory/ocz_ddr2_pc2_6400_reaper_hpc_4gb_edition) is the exact RAM that I'm thinking about buying.
I thought overclocking RAM made a big difference in performance, what with all the hype companies give it. Now that I know it doesn't maybe I should just buy a different, less expensive, 4GB kit? I would only overclock if it made significant performance differences to my system, otherwise I just couldn't be bothered.
I'll still be buying from the same place I linked to in the first post (here (http://www.umart.com.au/pro/products_listnew.phtml?id=10&bid=4&id2=111)). Do you think I would be better off going with something else? I'm kinda turned off overclocking if it doesn't make significant differences, and it would just be a waste of money to buy Reaper RAM if I'm not going to overclock.

[Kougar]

Aye, mostly frequency is just hype. DDR2-1067MHz is over rated because it requires you to drop the RAM timings, negating the gains you get.

Honestly I'd just suggest these (http://www.umart.com.au/pro/products_listnew.phtml?id=10&id2=111&bid=4&sid=17948), they do 4-4-4-12 at 2.1v, and will overclock to 1,000Mhz at 5-5-5-15 using 2.1v. They will need decent case airflow to stay cool if you give them 2.1v though.

[James Crysis]

Did you mean the 4GB kit of those which is $136? It's funny. My brothers has those, as well as a friend of mine who just built a new rig. Didn't really want to do the same thing as them, although I guess that sounds kind of stupid. I could spend an extra 4 bucks and get Kingston HyperX RAM... choices... choices...

[Kougar]

Well, whichever is cheapest. If you're not going to OC them then any kit of 4-4-4-12 800MHz RAM would suffice. Those Corsair chips are some of the cheapest stateside, but maybe not on that store...

[James Crysis]

Yeah I'm guessing prices for different products are a whole lot different between us two. Have you had any experience with the Kingston HyperX memory, or heard anything good/bad about it?
And yes, I do always have this much trouble making a decision when buying things :P

[Kougar]

I've heard nothing wrong about Kingston HyperX stuff. :)

[Doomsday]

i bought the 800MHZ corsair RAMS with the XFX 780i. i have one GPU. will the Corsair Dominator-1066MHz work on the 780i without enabling SLi ?!?

[Merlin]

i bought the 800MHZ corsair RAMS with the XFX 780i. i have one GPU. will the Corsair Dominator-1066MHz work on the 780i without enabling SLi ?!?
Yes, of course
See my Signature below

[Doomsday]

oh yeah. hehe thanx!

[Rob Williams]

i bought the 800MHZ corsair RAMS with the XFX 780i. i have one GPU. will the Corsair Dominator-1066MHz work on the 780i without enabling SLi ?!?

You might be confusing SLI and SLI-capable memory. The latter is just some needless spec given to RAM that has built-in profiles to go beyond stock speeds of the memory. It has absolutely nothing to do with SLI... it's just a badge tacked on there.