Q9300 is available

[b1lk1]

Tigerdirect.ca is price gouging accordingly for $365.99

http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applications/searchtools/item-Details.asp?EdpNo=3584440&sku=CP2-DUO-Q9300

The same CPU in the US is $299 from the same place.

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/searchtools/item-Details.asp?EdpNo=3584440&sku=CP2-DUO-Q9300

This is ridiculous since our dollar is worth more most of the time as of late. Expect the rest of the retailers to price gouge accordingly in Canada.

[Rob Williams]

Tiger Direct also gouges in their shipping, which is why I never purchase from them. Higher product prices and higher shipping prices generally make me want to go elsewhere. NCIX on the other hand offers express shipping for something like $30, while it's $80+ through Tiger Direct.

That aside, the Q9300 wouldn't be my first choice. It's clocked nice, but has less L2 cache than the bigger brothers, which could make a difference in some intensive applications. I think the Q9450 will be the sweet spot for most people, though it should retail for around ~$370 once available. Still not bad considering how kick-ass 45nm is.

It's good to see they are finally starting to come out.

[sbrehm72255]

Even the US price seems a bit high for a OEM product, but I guess that's to be expected on first release, the others should be hitting the streets soon then I guess.

Like Rob says, I'm sort of looking at the Q9450 if I can get the cash together ............;)

[sbrehm72255]

I've found a few places that are showing the Q9450 for sale at a whooping $500 ...........:(

Intel Core-2 Quad Q9450 2.66GHz 1333MHz FSB 12MB L2 Cache Socket 775 Processor Retail Mfr P/N BX80569Q9450A

http://www.memory4less.com/m4l_itemdetail.asp?rid=fd_01&itemid=1439429152

Not a place I would shop at, but thought that someone would like to know.

[werty316]

I could have sworn tigerdirect.com had it at a cheaper price earlier in the day when I looked...

Crap, I'm gonna need a new board to use on of those great chips :(

[sbrehm72255]

Seems like they are going up by the hour almost. The place I linked to had 3 different listings for the same Q9450 all spaced about $50 bucks apart with the lesser items no longer any good...........:(

[Kougar]

Intel's MSRP for the Q9300 is actually $266. TD is enjoying the scarcity, as most retailers are wont to do I guess.

IMO the extra whopping 12mb cache is uneeded. There was amazingly little difference going from 4mb to 2mb with Conroe, usually 10 % give or take according to the program used, and still usually less. A few sites have tested 4, 2, 1, and 512kb caches for "Core" based chips. The Q9300 is just the same design so it should follow the cache trends, and it has even more cache 6mb. I just don't see 12mb mattering, but then again I don't do heavy video encoding either.

If it wasn't for the low 7.5 mutliplier I'd rate this chip pretty well... without that extra 6mb of L2 cache dragging it down the better Q9300's should overclock very well.

It'll be like the E6300's of yore but better... I got a 24/7 stable 100% OC on a E6300 with only a 7 mutliplier and a cheap 965P-DS3... :D I would expect similar results (read GHz, not % !) with many Q9300s thanks to half the cache and less heat, just like the E6300.

[sbrehm72255]

I'll be holding off till the prices settle, just like when I had my killer E4300 (also 100% OC out of it). I'm really in no hurry to spend extra money right now that I don't really have.

[Rob Williams]

Intel's MSRP for the Q9300 is actually $266. TD is enjoying the scarcity, as most retailers are wont to do I guess.

That's not a MSRP price... it's a price to reseller. So $266 is what Tiger Direct pays, therefore making a $300 price tag not so ridiculous.

If it wasn't for the low 7.5 mutliplier I'd rate this chip pretty well... without that extra 6mb of L2 cache dragging it down the better Q9300's should overclock very well.

That's one thing that hurts it for enthusiasts. But you are right about the cache issue... most people wouldn't even notice the difference.

I'm really in no hurry to spend extra money right now that I don't really have.

If only more people had that attitude ;-) The truth is, most people don't NEED the new CPU, at all. Chances are even better that most people would not even notice the difference, so it's somewhat pointless to upgrade unless you want better temperatures, better overclocking and perhaps better multi-media crunching.

I love 45nm though, that's for sure.

[Merlin]

I'm with everybody and these CPU's.
But we are so addicted...where does it all end.
I need the 12 mb...oooops 12 step program, it's never enough.

You Laugh?.......you know it's true :o)
I ordered from Newegg last night, then cancelled ...on replacing the old AMD2 6000+ with the M2N32 SLI Deluxe board......yup, was going to pull stickers off and go Intel.........then I chickened out and cancelled......I'll get my credit card reversed on the order in two days.
I'm going to chill for a while and watch the componants morph into the next generation.....
( Maybe )

Merlin
" on step #1 " ( denial )

[sbrehm72255]

About the only reason I would need/want one of the 45nm jobs is for OC'ing fun..............;)

I really have no real need for more power/cores as it is. OC'ing is my main enjoyment in life (outside of the wife that is)...........;)

[Rob Williams]

Haha, the 12-step program would be a good one. God knows Bill needs that one :rolleyes:

OC'ing is my main enjoyment in life (outside of the wife that is)...........;)

Whew, you are lucky you finished that off, else your wife might have finished you off. You know... assuming she spies on your online activities and all.

[sbrehm72255]

LOL.....she does read the forums from time to time, I always have to play things on the safe side..................;)

[slugbug]

Buy.com has the Q9450 listed for pre-order: http://www.buy.com/retail/usersearchresults.asp?search_store=1&querytype=comp&qu=Q9450&loc=101&qxt=comp&display=col&dclksa=1
and you can save $50 by signing up for their RevolutionCard: http://www.buy.com/corp/revolution_offer.asp

[sbrehm72255]

About the same as Tiger Direct CA then.

[Rob Williams]

Buy.com looks to have the exact price-range I was expecting, so all is good. To be honest, I think that is a GREAT price for that processor. Call me giddy, but the processor packs quite a punch. It offers 12MB of cache, 45nm benefits (which I've endlessly whored information for in our reviews over and over) and comes nicely clocked.

I might have to pick one up and give it a good review. I am concerned about the potential overclocking, but something tells me it won't be horrible.

[sbrehm72255]

My only concern about OC'ing a quad would be the heat, I've never owned a quad or even messed with one before, but from what I hear about the past Quads, heat can become a issue with Quads pretty quick.

[Merlin]

Hmmmmmm
(775-pin LGA Socket T )
What's the difference?

[Rob Williams]

My only concern about OC'ing a quad would be the heat, I've never owned a quad or even messed with one before, but from what I hear about the past Quads, heat can become a issue with Quads pretty quick.

It's not so bad to be honest, as long as you are using a great air cooler. The move to 45nm improved efficiency even further, so it's easier than ever to keep a Quad-Core cool. I have a feeling that the Q9450 with a nice AIR cooler should be able to hit at least 3.2GHz... perhaps a little more more. Depends on the overclocking-ability of the chips themselves though. They might not go that high on water... who knows.

Hmmmmmm
(775-pin LGA Socket T )
What's the difference?

Socket T = LGA775

[sbrehm72255]

Well, if they clock anything like the E8400/E8500 core, they should do rather well I would think..................;)

Have to wait till the retail chips hit the streets and see just what the average user is getting out of them I guess.

[Kougar]

Ack, thanks for the correction on the price... got me on that one. ;)


If only more people had that attitude ;-) The truth is, most people don't NEED the new CPU, at all. Chances are even better that most people would not even notice the difference, so it's somewhat pointless to upgrade unless you want better temperatures, better overclocking and perhaps better multi-media crunching.

I love 45nm though, that's for sure.

Agreed. Especially those already using Quads... I guess I hadn't said so here but I've made a point on other forums that I'm saving for Nehalem. 45nm Quads are great, OC better than ever, but still don't offer noticeable gains outside benchmarks or specialized enocoding over current 65nm chips. Same with X38, X48, P43, P45... P45 will be the next stairstep above P35, but still it isn't worth it if the user already has P35 hardware. It's not going to work with future Intel processors anyway. :)

Nehalem will require a new motherboard, DDR3 RAM, a new socket so potentially a new cooler or mounting kit, and last but not least an actual new Nehalem chip. That is going to be pricey, even for those that have DDR3 memory already.

Quad's definitely need water to reach their best potential (And to avoid cooking them), mine is currently on air with an Arctic Freezer 7 Pro... I didn't know how good I had it thanks to my WC loop until I tried this thing on it, and this thing even smokes the Intel cooler... :D

[sbrehm72255]

Quad's definitely need water to reach their best potential (And to avoid cooking them), mine is currently on air with an Arctic Freezer 7 Pro... I didn't know how good I had it thanks to my WC loop until I tried this thing on it, and this thing even smokes the Intel cooler... :D
regardless of whatever chip I end up getting down the road, you can count on it being water cooled, you can bet your life on that part.................:D

[Kougar]

regardless of whatever chip I end up getting down the road, you can count on it being water cooled, you can bet your life on that part.................:D

Oh yeah, if I didn't know that then I obviously don't know anything at all... :D

Best bit of advice I can give is to pay serious attention to those GTL reference voltages, and particularly if the motherboard you plan to use allows you to adjust them. Gigabyte doesn't except on X48, and even then they only change the settings for a single "die", not both "dies" so it is pretty much useless. Unless willing to ramp up the voltages elsewhere to try and compensate, but then you go from cooking to simply boiling even with water. ApogeeGT block just couldn't transfer the heat to the water as fast as it was being generated, so I didn't bother pushing things past 3.2GHz. Anything past that is jumping off a cliff as far as CPU voltages have to go to remain stable.

[sbrehm72255]

My MSI board doesn't have a lot of voltage adjustments either, pretty much just the basics..........:) But I've done fairly well with them in the past, we'll just have to wait and see how well it does withthe new generation CPU's.

[Kougar]

That's just it... until now I've only worked with the basics, nothing fancy. But when the CPU has multiple CPU dies it apparently complicates quite a few things regarding voltages. Increasing the GTL reference voltage values by raising the overall vCore is just not effective.

Of course, since Nehalem is "native" quadcore it may not matter at all so who knows. Then again, if they offer split power planes like AMD's K10, adjusting vCore per individual core for the best results with lower temps may make it even more complicated... :D

[sbrehm72255]

I'd love to see the split power per core thing.........;) There's always one weak core in the group and pushing all the others voltage just to compensate for the weaker one isn't what I would call a ideal situation.

[Rob Williams]

I think splitting the power planes would be a rare scenario, but who knows. It would be a killer enthusiast feature, that's for sure (not to mention TIME CONSUMING!).

All of this talk about water makes me want to build a better overclocking rig, though. I am using a Corsair Nautilus 500 right now, but it's not too much better than air. I use it because it makes swapping CPUs an incredibly simple task. The lack of room is keeping me back from building more than one rig to serve different purposes though, right now.

As for Nehalem, I've seen a lot of people saying that they will wait until its launch. I just hope that it will be released on schedule. Even if it's delayed for a few months, it's not going to make waiting longer very easy.

I can agree though. Unlike 45nm, Nehalem will be an absolutely huge architecture change, so upgrading then seems like a solid idea.

[sbrehm72255]

All of this talk about water makes me want to build a better overclocking rig, though. I am using a Corsair Nautilus 500 right now, but it's not too much better than air. I use it because it makes swapping CPUs an incredibly simple task. The lack of room is keeping me back from building more than one rig to serve different purposes though, right now.
.
Changing out the radiator on the Nautilus with either a Swiftech or Black Ice unit improves performance a great deal. It's a pretty straight forward mod and fairly inexpensive as well. The aluminum radiator that comes stock is a extremely old design that was first used on the Corsair HydroCool several years before the Nautilus was released. Corsair decided on using the same radiator as a cost saving measure as they already had stock on hand................:eek:

Forgot about the 790i being DDR3 only, oops.

[Rob Williams]

I might do that mod sometime... I didn't know it was an option. Do you happen to know the exact parts for that? I'd hate to tear it apart and find out something couldn't fit.

At the same time, I'd probably order a replacement block, since mine is scratched to hell (it's been swapped well over one hundred times).

[DarkSynergy]

I might do that mod sometime... I didn't know it was an option. Do you happen to know the exact parts for that? I'd hate to tear it apart and find out something couldn't fit.

At the same time, I'd probably order a replacement block, since mine is scratched to hell (it's been swapped well over one hundred times).


Bobert,

I have a radiator that I would donate to your cause if you want to "play" around with that cooler. Also, go to your nearest hardware store, or dare I say Wal-Mart, and pick up some fine grit sandpaper. You could lap that waterblock back into shape in the time it takes Vista to install on a test machine.

[sbrehm72255]

There's a thread on the mod over at Legit Reviews, Nate (site owner) did it for the same reason as you, not so great performance.

Replacing the water block with a Swiftech APOGEE GT will improve performance as well or even a D-Tek Fuzion if you want to spend even more money.

http://forums.legitreviews.com/about6397.html

I wouldn't use the BI extreme though, it's to thick and the fins are to closely packed together for good performance with low speed fans (they work best with 100+ CFM or better). One of the new generation ones designed for low noise would serve you best in my opinion. Black Ice are good quality but have a slightly higher pressure drop than the Swiftech ones. Only problem with the single 120 Swifties (MCR120QP) is that the last time I checked they were still using soldered straight 3/8" barbs on them and I don't know if you'll get the clearance you need.

[Rob Williams]

You could lap that waterblock back into shape in the time it takes Vista to install on a test machine.

I have a feeling the computer would crash before Vista could install. Usually it likes the heatsink installed :P

I have fine grit sandpaper here, so I'll haul it out and give it a go. I just have a problem of not being very clean with things, so I'd be more worried making it worse off. I guess I can't hurt it too much at this point though.

Thanks a lot for the info sbrehm. I am not sure when I will have time to look into this further, but hopefully soon. Right now I need to clear out content I have, then I'll worry about that cooler.

[DarkSynergy]

There are plenty of walkthroughs on the net concerning lapping... hmmm. Perhaps that would be a nice addition to our list of articles. Hmmm...

Just make sure you lay the sandpaper on a flat surface like a desk or table and do your thing. You could recruit your brother if you wanted :D

[sbrehm72255]

Lapping on a sheet of glass works about the best. Use wet/dry sandpaper with plenty of water. A drop of dish soap also works well to help the sandpaper from clogging up and also works a a lube.

[DarkSynergy]

Lapping on a sheet of glass works about the best. Use wet/dry sandpaper with plenty of water. A drop of dish soap also works well to help the sandpaper from clogging up and also works a a lube.

Yeah, what sbrehm said!

[Merlin]

Yeah, what sbrehm said!
Hobby Lobby ( and maybe a few other hobby stores have a set of polishing clothd/paper, actually on flexible plastic.
I used that one time on my wrist watch face crystal to remove scrathes, polished to mirror finish.
Comes in a set of 5 sheets, the red sheet is the final polish.
http://h1070530.hobbyshopnow.com/products/description.asp?prod=ALC301
Merlin :techgage:

[Rob Williams]

Thanks guys, I'll definitely put this knowledge to good use.

Just an update from NCIX... although the Q9000 processors are still due to be delivered late this month, they expect to receive a shipment of Xeon-equivalents this week. So, if you can't wait to get on the 45nm bandwagon, this would be a great way to go.

X3360 - 12MB L2 Cache, 2.83GHz, 1333MHz, 95W
X3350 - 12MB L2 Cache, 2.66GHz, 1333MHz, 95W
X3320 - 6MB L2 Cache, 2.50GHz, 1333MHz, 95W

[sbrehm72255]

I've been sort of looking for the Xeon around here, not a lot of them in stock either. But that's OK, tax rebate isn't here yet.

[Rob Williams]

Haha. The Xeon's would be a fantastic choice. Just look at how many people will wait until the Q9000... owning a Xeon makes you unique!

[sbrehm72255]

There's alot of folks that aren't willing to take the chance on running a Xeon in their DT rigs as they think that they are totally different, when in fact they have the same processor ID and stepping, they are the same CPU's. The Xeon is just a higher binned part with a lower VID..............;)

[Rob Williams]

You said it. Those are the foolish ones! Heck, I remember two years ago when AMD was king, it was rare to see an enthusiast without an Opteron. Really, it's the exact same situation!